From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15495 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2021 01:09:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Mar 2021 01:09:54 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2E1509CA82; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:09:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6489CA68; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:09:33 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="A6YZDCpN"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5CB7C9CA68; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:09:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f177.google.com (mail-lj1-f177.google.com [209.85.208.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 141E39CA67 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:09:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f177.google.com with SMTP id k12so405218ljg.9 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:09:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zDeEjqEOI/9h1KsXsTUWt1Pub/BN8IDyFB9eVt+Tifc=; b=A6YZDCpNqyJnolo5UzRZDJ4oWJxSaUBKhtnA2WhWa8hJirmg8lKyXa4vSjKB+BTict 4QwYiNCNCokgr7XxL7R9foh+N/tBukWq50+M/eGMF9fnSs73nHVA/uK+KcWexnrYLGnp jTM33WBkyfitzjS2gnncUcS73Tjc8wJKvRutcAHvZbmVkiD4ZhviRa4aPtrcqGDMIJnJ xzmlFWpvcVZ3RVFNti7lL1ofjo5fOmlv4Z0RJR55pttjPmEkhay5hDsOY541iqoT06Mh Hr2gRx4oRFtcxn532KRWLl0Bzr7NTqQAFv0IE7vxULEz6xK+6VkmpEP+q9V5ftRMhm+g sJbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zDeEjqEOI/9h1KsXsTUWt1Pub/BN8IDyFB9eVt+Tifc=; b=PmTOKysWPC0G+DuFauHbUf5oF39Mk5zZicWL92dWrWb7IX5SF/tzl8aK3N3lTXbT12 yrB7WngedypPSmG2zV+7a4X3U6hA3ifElfnrflFijNv9peOTvgJxapMxeYp855XKstT3 MncUsglrb+wKr2smQotVE8qiHIJvDRGi5kFfnKtoP6pP+LA8TuyA13SdGC7ZubUjvXwd aebZGbp59DLSTWLRtB0VhZUjqXNeZVlwA4euPVJJ/QJowK2+fTx3Q6R/eHWkl5qDXFIr JZWoLP6c/6agmkjQFooaGQX+LqmIvehOaFQaNi+2UHZx4Frmh3WBJM7qqGM5tRxkce1N iBYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533LNjSsM/+TRACBjLCLxBUJdSM1XKzfuV2+PJ2iH1LnmCx33RTV yvECAQ8FCiChqyP4seIMA75ra6rJA3zxJoV/sNFJf3Uyisk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxo5F0B3B9y4hBH/0LLUUifhvaDtK9QcATGeBofQ0ygqaLOumuq42u5JLGj9QgASZDMj9a58Aqkc17G8vVukDY= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:964e:: with SMTP id z14mr3887660ljh.333.1614906567279; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:09:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210305005531.GA30608@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20210305005531.GA30608@mcvoy.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:09:16 +1000 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] tabs vs spaces - entab, detab X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I use them incoherently, depending on context, time, and adherence to something approximating to xNF for some X, normal-form. Other peoples rules. What I found interesting, is the divergence in strategy in managing. strategy a: I shall show these as if they were 8 space indents. You maybe can change this. Its columns on the screen. strategy b: I shall, in a fit of lunacy, actually change these to align to the 8 space indent column implications. your source is now different strategy c: You ran some tool like tr over these, and now, Its your fault not mine. Good luck. I usually wound up in strategy c but some editors of the day did strategy b. I harbour a belief, this amongst other things, is why patch -l was invented. I know its heresy to contradict wiser people, but I think the number of circumstances where space/tab actually did affect baud- or data- rate was minimal. It was an effect more apparent and believed than real. Sure, if you used an ASR33 the head positioning was better. That experience set against being in a Vt52 or ADM5 world, by the time you were in a vdu display of 80x24 I think it was gone. I never consciously thought about it and I used both. It wasn't very material for the circumstances but I wasn't trying to cram source into a 2k memory to put into a rocket or a telephone switch or anything. It's a bit like steam-engine enthusiasts arguing about boiler tube design: most shunters don't care. People mostly hated me mucking around with their code. I can't blame them. It would be horrid to live in a really nicely laid out world in either tab or space-land and have a hooligan come and scribble over your art with a texta. Aside from simply coding bad answers to problems, I do note that sending people who demanded KNF non-KNF formatted code usually led to rapid rejection. The US is a place where people still use fixed-width fonts and specific spacing to file paper on the law courts, although I note Sydney Powell didn't bother spell checking before she sent in the incredibly weird conforming style of text. I should complain: the IETF idnit checker is feral. -G On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:55 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 07:44:12PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 2:10 PM emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > > Does it help, if we differentiate with the type of text ? > > > > > > Assembler : Tabs = 8 spaces > > > (c, c++, pascal, java, etc.) : tabs = 4 spaces > > > > > > > The Lisp community long ago standardized on 2-space indentation. > > I used to be a 4 spaces are tabs guy but Sun beat that out of me. > Tabs are tabs and they are for a reason, though that reason is pretty > dead. The reason was pretty printing listings, anything but tabs got > all screwed up. But it has probably been a decade or more since I've > pretty printed anything, maybe two. Old habits... > > I developed my own use of 4 spaces, those are "continuation lines" > > if (some_stupidly_long_expression_that_goes_on_forever >= > this_never_happens_but_it_does_happen_when_deeply_nested) { > statement; > statement2; > etc; > } > > But I'm weird, I hate > > if (expr) > statement; > > I do > > if (expr) statement; > > Curly braces are for more than one statement or I do do > > if (expr) { > statement; > } else { > statement2; > } > > I also like perl so I do > > #define unless(x) if (!(x)) > > because I think this reads better: > > FILE *f; > > unless (f = fopen(argv[1], "r")) { > perror(argv[1]); > exit(1); > }