From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 806f3196 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 23:38:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ACB79A1A6E; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:38:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92420A1A20; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:38:06 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b=dr7ibPRr; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1B4BFA1A20; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:38:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f42.google.com (mail-wr1-f42.google.com [209.85.221.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 727F4A1A1F for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:38:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f42.google.com with SMTP id k5-v6so3043260wre.10 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:38:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y5d7iYZU4A4ysEKx/XXZK25PdzSDcGimInv+aZhbThU=; b=dr7ibPRrZ7l7eAdiExlV0l44qszZTrX1jC1s7fBefkYHJxD5wHhKeBAVOFh6mEGsox Fmmn5QBAPvFddcFrO4hwNHiKhkucFLmDItF+JfZC6RY/Jw5txk33a9+QrYVWwAUiS0os I8t/mjcDO03FdbzFWVGufvWbKMKvxwuG7HBe97T1uaOs4TulEc3AvQmvk/Ywe3LAR2s9 EuEALmCsL3pVfGmw8I6ZJXnYuqfMyTaZbmKRgJH/xglgOwyzl1U4wC/TZFqikCnzfcUc UCn1+bS4b+NlmmdKBUUSQHiYgH+cLFtqwqz0TkAURhiEu1fwyt9k8tXN/vJN8RgZvHKn X5LA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y5d7iYZU4A4ysEKx/XXZK25PdzSDcGimInv+aZhbThU=; b=oXW6193btkte7HmSeNlKEtUYjkev9XQDe4Tg4RXg4AiDPxaOD39J8vFi3jyp7XDlU3 TtkNnKnbfNY7Pc3SR6wJbFqs+9UXsYU1Cv42an6i1OGcsCamAnHijXOCHAaSyu/0y8zs zihgmfiMmKtIwEo1VLSF5Ed54Y0YRHuaR4aMTk8vEkYp2NR95vOpqbKR4Mo5ObYk0T3l hanHolTlW+zrm61XRaGd6uDmCNoCl38KYxEyim0Aq78S0jSssDppMD25IoxbApPCPH6H Ho160fH5LEmzYLV7bdME1Ehq6ZNlPz0n2pRFuBgtwaBwouj2CeFlH8YxLFwbDVE7A02s iiRw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51AdY9b2ecWU3JRFhSkQXCjf9/ZNTibZSpQNe6kYASOAQpwAKAdt WlHR5+c93NPT5u3IVnDLSPenobE4MdnA9jFSawz4Fa/y X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYgV67UBEP4GO2mTSiu1hhrD7UXMYiQB1t8yd+sqEFluWOJP/ebz03q7l09JiwN89Hl00nKomG54MHeXnxGR0I= X-Received: by 2002:adf:c78e:: with SMTP id l14-v6mr2428014wrg.230.1535499483182; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20180826003127.GA18905@minnie.tuhs.org> <20180826052931.GA14695@wopr> In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:37:51 +1000 Message-ID: To: Dave Horsfall Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] Usenix: no official Unix 50th celebration, apparently X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" sockets broke that. ioctl() always felt like special magic to me, but sockets+ioctl is not just special magic, its arcane. I think part of the problem is that a network binding actually isn't "just like a file" because it incudes things like out of order delivery, and control (side) channel. TBF, sparse files and network file systems is another place things broke down. For some reason, device-special and sparse files wound up being in the too hard basket for network mounts. I know Lindsay Marshall of old, so have a soft spot for the newcastle connections (.../mounthost/path/to/file) syntax. I always liked this. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:30 AM Dave Horsfall wrote: > > I know that I'll probably get into trouble for writing this (I'm a born > stirrer, coming from a military family), but... > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2018, Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > This is all so asinine it sounds like it=E2=80=99s run by a random haug= hty > > social club of people far detached from systems and UNIX and especially > > far from publishing systems papers that actually advance the art. > > Sometimes it is necessary to let an org know it=E2=80=99s become a joke= . I=E2=80=99d > > prefer to attend and assist with something not affiliated with Usenix > > after reading this thread. > > I'm having trouble thinking of an OS (still in current use) that has > remained *mostly* unchanged over 50 years. Yes, Unix has certainly > evolved, but is still recognisable as "do one thing, and do it well". > > It's just a shame that they seem to have broken the other philosophy of > "everything looks like a file". > > -- Dave