From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2031 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 00:57:17 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 00:57:17 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B243942509; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:56:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f46.google.com (mail-oa1-f46.google.com [209.85.160.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB04642508 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:56:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f46.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-15f97c478a8so4560601fac.13 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:56:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hM7XJA6xkOPbdnW2u0KIHMv8zV1N9UH0Oa9VE02oWdE=; b=ULGNoRZ9KXJUg6z4G/CKRERQunt9FebHv8XvTGcz+HHut1Kkha6wTbuWGOqgs9BOdH PB2cOifrMOM8O+4q+0YkzsZ2ItLNGAKH0QCYY9i42EUn502/wWytIF7oChDrzRj2sxxE xjmnqlRGlu5pbAYxc8nW8AJ63glT9EjGw0Qz1t/8YE/dH9ZGU9cbtUaDT6IsS5a51FlD VnfJ0r/BkwqE8zDEcmta07pRPGt0AjH0Eh0ivWQnnuplqjdOLmUppyd8cmtA9GwgegZ7 UZxWl8Ltu0zetwRXc+Mv2zAGqgva69zFwOEIzliQBrkctc+wdsYO+mYDq/S1sUxZ2C4n H96A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=hM7XJA6xkOPbdnW2u0KIHMv8zV1N9UH0Oa9VE02oWdE=; b=YZl2Ct3xiZeU15WMnfj9rDwFSE4LxGcm0ZZDEkV1jd+CkNlu1AckZFHfZElXhguoBl sXs7cRhwqn8HSpcCcJtltKbkynYW4WZ3vBmPvqzUrdu2nQJ+DKgLc3VsGS70vfRLOizm 8iKxNB5XchSydS/q05tYhgYfGmSBCq6Wdcb6ATMt9hcfhWAGhCUVhBFswzoXrfgWg5RP LCDF2PmPQaZKCGc2P0Jsza6Z4DKvq2tTd1amb3oiIrA8sauYqU+7511+b6QS/4dhe6ss tLyyjG4/FuufXT0Et8Pbc2FkdsqAko3W0MeFa3V5kh0EppRcmSzv+8qRIdrJMsVgMCNB WUnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqCRpPmETSa689Sq4uBummz3xmjEwaWEuFmAKcA3rvzPSEloIqR 2RVumPfqAZzUKBWhjhlf96yW+bcfBE0j8OwvmzDd7w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvgjvm95SOaEydYlDNSYaSeaGsuFfncUX9oqgCJO1zOKh8EsuDY7IqUsFZhVDN3Pyguh+uWuWHYLxK87DfK6p0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:d3ce:b0:15f:afc0:12ed with SMTP id l14-20020a056870d3ce00b0015fafc012edmr269022oag.285.1674176148251; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:55:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301190802.30J82KwQ025718@freefriends.org> <20230119150434.GA626@mcvoy.com> <25545.58523.4766.431157@dobie-old.ylee.org> In-Reply-To: <25545.58523.4766.431157@dobie-old.ylee.org> From: George Michaelson Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:55:37 +1000 Message-ID: To: Yeechang Lee Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009bbc6205f2a782e3" Message-ID-Hash: W36FP42Q3ELXIPTDSYFE67FISODEK5F5 X-Message-ID-Hash: W36FP42Q3ELXIPTDSYFE67FISODEK5F5 X-MailFrom: ggm@algebras.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The era of general purpose computing (Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000009bbc6205f2a782e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mike Lesk is interesting on this. He said to me that if you assume people are idiots they learn to behave to your expectations and if you treat them with the respect they deserve they grow. It was in the context of library index systems and "do you want easy mode" clippy style vs terse but functional. Many specialist secretary roles in times past were simply underpaid subject matter experts even on a typing pool. Huge amounts of expert knowledge. The data entry staff at Edinburgh uni notoriously corrected student programs doing cardpunch work. There's no 'just' in women's work. As the Chinese maoist poster said: "women hold up half the sky". G On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, 10:47 Yeechang Lee, wrote: > Rich Salz says: > > To me, the biggest surprise about Unix history is that the Bell > > patent office secretaries were able to use ed and [nt]roff. > > I've similarly heard that Sun secretaries were pretty adept at using Emacs. > > -- > geo:37.783333,-122.416667 > --0000000000009bbc6205f2a782e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike Lesk is interesting on this. He said to me that if y= ou assume people are idiots they learn to behave to your expectations and i= f you treat them with the respect they deserve they grow. It was in the con= text of library index systems and "do you want easy mode" clippy = style vs terse but functional.

Many specialist secretary roles in times past were simply underpaid subjec= t matter experts even on a typing pool. Huge amounts of expert knowledge.

The data entry staff at E= dinburgh uni notoriously corrected student programs doing cardpunch work.

There's no 'just&= #39; in women's work. As the Chinese maoist poster said: "women ho= ld up half the sky".

G

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, 10:47 Yeechang Lee, <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
Rich Salz says:
> To me, the biggest surprise about Unix history is that the Bell
> patent office secretaries were able to use ed and [nt]roff.

I've similarly heard that Sun secretaries were pretty adept at using Em= acs.

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