From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,PLING_QUERY,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11342 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2021 01:22:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Mar 2021 01:22:08 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 900749C221; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:22:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A76A9B68A; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:21:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="hUjb/mUa"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 12D159B68A; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:21:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f46.google.com (mail-lf1-f46.google.com [209.85.167.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DECFE9B688 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:21:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f46.google.com with SMTP id m12so1891862lfq.10 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mbYU8kvdhoEPSqvdJ+2F+HS8S0F/j9DHfeyCiyeWtRI=; b=hUjb/mUamS7RC3gX+g9hNONxcVxw+TWlK2rQyY+sCJppWk3PYSzz3EXioaioohP99/ yxDW925KOwtl4zWuTUdTRUOKFM3YWTOSdZADgyFQowzBOeR1A9voOXz0Am8aAWkXv09x xfFVuVS5DhJ3V/4836eBTOfCjLRZoLGvqvAGzYGF7ZU4lN7ZKLtNDUN4LVHi0lj0h3Oh FVGh6MSPDMiIsnmOhLX4bCbgN/ZxLwk1UxG7ff8j5di/U3BvStfF0VGGYMaGcwGgGxAj 8eNrtYnpmZR0LcZkti/OjXO70x4y0zdlFMlhq9qJMNkmVWUTsIZ/CJpur53trn9goybE GRtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mbYU8kvdhoEPSqvdJ+2F+HS8S0F/j9DHfeyCiyeWtRI=; b=RDrD+8GFoLRhFKvLW0Ac4c14djS8+qM4CvcQls8rfdeJY0soRSTu/E0KDR2SeFZG/1 ePpa+jav7N8VMr1Zc9jNKu7SKruGygkqqufoqcnLmcxDWVG86eWBpkVPCqDu9bpqFVIE eFE5BZBERLzcI3UOiiR4YEg6MIxm1Omxq/VH3/ba1nGhrjZRFSCGXnR0w7XNMgPvMH9I bskq1g4jm++Qf/KMDeRr2Is3UA4nkig88FrKBeO8lwbB/8c00kUD6Bwccw09ZOAtDkMm 2tND46pdHbONEaFrxZAOMmO7vY2jDwICifJQYjU7do4NRnuPlvsyMmbTV2mCaoP6QPyg i2eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328Gy8b45/+M9bKWCCHdixb2XB8B4w4HgcHgUACSUMrXSmxMeeB +m+gtcCAk9hu2tUIA7uWcj79NHYlP6Rblm88rkePlLxhi1I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJytzhuPVJpF3McaMCkw5jGDOouOpjDvt2ym9YekKeyWZGlLGvHHk8Fe3wP7rGwUKM2OEYrlBA3suXNcOXOzSqA= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:562a:: with SMTP id b10mr3919497lff.384.1616030497697; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 18:21:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210317203335.GA5249@naleco.com> <20210318011528.GA53947@eureka.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20210318011528.GA53947@eureka.lemis.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:21:26 +1000 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] XENIX or UNIX? (was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" System V and Xenix both came out of System III and it had X25 networks, JANET. Albeit indirectly, via something like an RT-11 frontend. System III had real limittions on the compiler. It was a nightmare using code which came from systems which had larger address space, a larger "heap" for CPP #defines (ok heap maybe isn't the word, but you know what I mean) -even down to split I/D stuff, it was just nasty. I think Xenix was a bit of a half-way bet. They didn't invest. No reason it couldn't have become something bigger, HP-UX did. Shame, I think that should have died at birth. On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 11:16 AM Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 17 March 2021 at 21:33:37 +0100, Josh Good wrote: > > Hello UNIX veterans. > > > > So I stumbled online upon a copy of the book "SCO Xenix System V Operating > > System User's Guide", from 1988, advertised as having 395 pages, and the > > asked for price was 2.50 EUROs. I bought it, expecting --well, I don't know > > exactly what I was expecting, something quaint and interesting, I suppose. > > > > I've received the book, and it is not a treasure trobe, to say the least. I > > am in fact surprised at how sparse was UNIX System V of this age, almost > > spartan. > > I'm surprised that nobody else mentioned this, but XENIX System V and > UNIX System V were two very different beasts. I've used both, and > XENIX is considerably worse. > > > And that's it. The communications part only deals the Micnet (a > > serial-port based local networking scheme), and UUCP. No mention at > > all of the words "Internet" or "TCP/IP", no even in the Index. > > It was available, and I had it installed. In fact, somewhere I still > have the media, though it's unlikely that they're still readable. But > like Interactive UNIX System V/386 (if I have the names, it was > commercially oriented and sold each individual component separately, > separate media, separate documentation, and these bloody license keys. > > > I'm probably spoiled from Linux having repositories full of packaged > > free software, where the user just has to worry about "which is the > > best of": email program, text editor, browser, image manipulation > > program, video player, etc. I understand this now pretty well, how > > spoiled are we these days. > > Yes, I had BSD/386 at the same time I actually had to use XENIX, and > the difference was like night and day. I moved as much of my > development environment to BSD as possible, not helped by XENIX's lack > of NFS. I'm not sure it even had X. > > Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA