From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3958 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2021 21:05:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Nov 2021 21:05:54 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 54D179CA71; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:05:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC719CA36; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:03:26 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="B/9ZH7do"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7FD139CA36; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:03:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (mail-lf1-f52.google.com [209.85.167.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F4979C2A1 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:03:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id b1so32130274lfs.13 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:03:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Un63K/sTrCj+g1gMp6IR2oR6z1Q7MSwDFrfVXM5NiUI=; b=B/9ZH7dot2Mwtcnbn23LSZn+VSrlCpQYo8cCtJwpB80jZc7GU566uaKIfPyftB5Vu2 aBmqrdpyH16a/OGZiP9icF7ZQg8SzCOPNMROa+Ievt1715DTa5jJrvTOXzL3IpR3dnTk m2Btga0zZGwtDpwi3RZJgbBTQWwfBEqmsgMwP2zxCcGAxabIQAX6dsd6qCHj1IBOkS5N 7zxhfOAaRvC6OBFrHJC9m10WLmZcsAS7RVEs13VpG2U8Ytx6un5Iw3TwE6Z53+p3fGTp 2pLNg8VoMq2TT6NNgG3ktAgfvPlgbt36Ty7piyCOFAif3eThBayDs4FAx3zaPya2V9MY ia+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Un63K/sTrCj+g1gMp6IR2oR6z1Q7MSwDFrfVXM5NiUI=; b=Ohzu7V0qw167IBpdPygBwmOz4fHVC7gcCPOAhuWT9Jk0yJThGwBQr8xmxtH74xTrKr HuxfRRbTPjmDqOnjiNHGFN4QTHHFVuhDVd09793EwffLDgrJk3mwSkRztrHP1dppHICc E0akfXf3lazkjWRbqtlEpMmWlyR1uQQIxW1fzFhBR15h8D2njPJRoCW0kzsiG09wcNnr OF/sJ3v9Fy2wL9td8WYFUKJZMKhlz2qImiszLTwfu+rV4lW0nrgoOoMULDZIGhjVR7Oq 58vL7rne7zL0f32GhY89RiDakN4bI83SiP+EVuCOr6uY2XUpzp0GuEDkCEJiz+YPHsVH jyMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530HBwL/1JIbSTnwTDOaXFl1wzdu9JH9K70prQda+fyax2dy/Xqh 4LMdaHTdyAErIhTvWT431fH2ny69UpoaqITL6i9ztC8Kdv/rtg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyu34wMdF2/1pvtcnTyZzRsBd6dZMQDDhCsrqNTZWUFBFWSaLpx5jJ0I09zISJqsjHKEPq8hVYKnkttvVB65PA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a596:: with SMTP id m22mr20615788ljp.342.1637269400261; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:03:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202111161754.1AGHsGsN929905@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <50F3E958-F0A4-4895-B1BC-41A2644A074A@oclsc.org> In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:03:09 +1000 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001264f05d1167dc5" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Book Recommendation [ reallly inscrutable languages ] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000001264f05d1167dc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Interesting use of the past tense. I like to think this remains in the past tense but I keep walking into sysadmin tasks where its (regrettably ?) present. G On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 8:24 am Rob Pike, wrote: > Perl certainly had its detractors, but for a few years there it was the > lingua franca of system administration. > > -rob > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:21 AM Dan Cross wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 3:54 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 1:48 PM Dan Stromberg wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:35 AM Norman Wilson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Wasn't Perl created to fill this void? >>>>> >>>>> Void? I thought Perl was created to fill a much-needed gap. >>>>> >>>> There was and is a need for something to sit between Shell and C. But >>>> it needn't be filled by Perl. >>>> >>>> The chief problem with Perl, as I see it, is it's like 10 languages >>>> smashed together. To write it, you only need to know one of the 10. But >>>> to read it, you never know what subset you're going to see until you're >>>> deep in the code. >>>> >>>> Perl is the victim of an experiment in exuberant, Opensource design, >>>> where the bar to adding a new feature was troublingly low. >>>> >>>> It was undeniably influential. >>>> >>> >>> It's what paved the way for python to fill that gap... >>> >> >> I feel that Perl, and to a lesser extent Tcl, opened the floodgates for a >> number of relatively lightweight "scripting" languages that sat between C >> and the shell in terms of their functionality and expressive power. From >> that group, the one I liked best was Ruby, but it got hijacked by Rails and >> Python swooped in and stole its thunder. >> >> - Dan C. >> >> --00000000000001264f05d1167dc5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting use of the past tense. I like to think t= his remains in the past tense but I keep walking into sysadmin tasks where = its (regrettably ?) present.

G

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 8:24 am Rob Pike,= <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Perl certainly had= its detractors, but for a few years there it was the lingua franca of syst= em administration.

-rob


On Thu, Nov = 18, 2021 at 8:21 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 3:54 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>= wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 1:48 PM Dan Stromberg &= lt;drsalists@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:35 AM Norman Wilson &l= t;norman@oclsc.org> wrote:
Wasn't Perl created to fill t= his void?

Void? I thought Perl was created to fill a much-needed gap= .
There was and is a need for something to sit b= etween Shell and C.=C2=A0 But it needn't be filled by Perl.
<= br>
The chief problem with Perl, as I see it, is it's like 10= languages smashed together.=C2=A0 To write it, you only need to know one o= f the 10.=C2=A0 But to read it, you never know what subset you're going= to see until you're deep in the code.

Perl is= the victim of an experiment in exuberant, Opensource design, where the bar= to adding a new feature was troublingly low.

It w= as undeniably influential.

It's what paved the way for pyt= hon to fill that gap...

I feel = that Perl, and to a lesser extent Tcl, opened the floodgates for a number o= f relatively lightweight "scripting" languages that sat between C= and the shell in terms of their functionality and expressive power. From t= hat group, the one I liked best was Ruby, but it got hijacked by Rails and = Python swooped in and stole its thunder.

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

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