From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25176 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2022 01:59:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Dec 2022 01:59:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910BA42399; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 11:59:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f45.google.com (mail-qv1-f45.google.com [209.85.219.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC4E542398 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 11:59:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f45.google.com with SMTP id r15so7447992qvm.6 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2022 17:59:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=a2S/WGrrLvdOVzSIYR1Wom+H2mnaYashn7uH7cNqhqc=; b=XV0q3e3ZyhZmpWY7dTpWrqZ1GimHHdM0IrI89pKduuss3jwxrYRBWwvY6wP/3fEHE1 +LljFfPnhtY4Biep3G7NRryVoQJVS/+mwGF6Bwv6uGrDF+yM8CMH0Z2aqnlFXbLxxFWS VQ4voA5dqED82xiYZT2M/TANUSO/uJdkPLkIkDCPg7/2ksFESMjKDm0XACiURcbMgHCV 0ZxM6ge6jECWEMixMmYHhxBAX+zG2mQnat2HMcn45DZCcRMpzeGyYxg13/a4/kimu0nR i+w+u/I3HcXmlqXaYXKAJAQ3WU6oCyTS4QelEGe8L5MK37KUtudXcT778t0j1RRu1Hfg wEuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=a2S/WGrrLvdOVzSIYR1Wom+H2mnaYashn7uH7cNqhqc=; b=HQC8FQo4OYqRMYPI95HcwM8MYlEHjsSB3dlFQ8/C1289mvTZwCPKYp7HpDf6novZS4 9u0RmFIzP95w1QWxYRmdAL9BFOiUifK61dlZZmnx3BHdZC4umXn2i8OFayPAX3pCMPWQ 19Vf+3Wo2Qogz17VqkuSl3LmYYNi1iP6HJcjeRhVZb0h7WgHoTzPuDrUArbaoZMZm1hP 16uv+QxEijI3WWtR3zSlLAchTqEdDHZ5d/YzG0iP2EPkKsHR4qK+4GLSrTRfiuSdsPHP QHUuDylpy+bvpuMZYPBucrH3ueebfNwb0/VdaP94ano7zIsoYNpwN4u4iT7fX96XDOXw 0h2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plpl5kb64Yi4oAY8eWS/BkF8P8FZtUchFdI/4aB0GNjVVH6EmZu ZHr5FODKUkp0sZnGR7kjDl1DbfyjIJ+iLbooo0qWZ9JneJ05Zw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6lsWmfWconiLdwcMVM0Dvu2HR4aNFDZu2yVzZXv1KolZrL/bOfy3XXN+m4PQ+1F3rWgKmQuCRm2W+K+SEjJIk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2ae:b0:4c7:aa2:35d9 with SMTP id m14-20020a05621402ae00b004c70aa235d9mr41017610qvv.20.1671501480008; Mon, 19 Dec 2022 17:58:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20221220013323.GL4401@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20221220013323.GL4401@mcvoy.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022 11:57:49 +1000 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: ZQAP2I27CHHTBU42HRIHGKBCD2AUT6OE X-Message-ID-Hash: ZQAP2I27CHHTBU42HRIHGKBCD2AUT6OE X-MailFrom: ggm@algebras.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Any comment now about taking ideas from Berkeley is informed by the twisted history which followed. At the time I can totally understand a preference for code from the tertiary education sector over IBM absent some explicit decision higher up about IPR: dealing with IBM must have been a very complicated story for Bell over time, and it wasn't that long since the whole CP/M MS-DOS thing had blown up with sillyness on both sides. It is entirely possible a decision with this much weight was made on a hunch/feel at some desk who had suffered at the hands of big blue lawyers at the time. Just because at a transatlantic distance I found the regents a nightmare to deal with (4.1 to 4.2 upgrade, re-licencing with bodies moving so signatures differing, then much later the same dance over some VLSI design s/w at UQ in Australia) doesn't mean Bell would have. To the contrary, they might have had the lowest bar legal and contractual barriers to work with. There was also the whole thing about DoD funding. Sockets are crap. I think they only became a de-facto standard because of familiarity. But again, put that back into historical context and have a platform coming out of the Californian state education system funded by the DoD with a network interface. DoD funding..yea lets hitch on that: maybe there will be some more of that sweet DARPA money flowing and if we're familiar with it, then we can get into the future contracts: Not that anyone cutting code thinks that way but desk jockeys would maybe? York Unix was how I met things on a Vax with VM. I remain a fan of how Charles Forsyth codes things. Small and elegant. I don't know that it fed back into anything.