From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20336 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2022 23:44:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Jun 2022 23:44:27 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475D340CE4; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:44:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B461540CE3 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:44:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id a29so4499963lfk.2 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QeFkJ1Kl6Vu2Zq4CdYhrIMxMAIYjQjB8Xf7h50xF31Y=; b=vQOKU+tIWQVZCw7G671HJUTxNYT4vrQLJQUPkqRMy+z/hfRcuzZVjX4uBbFcjojsUb okhXz6dCiXLNYW95ENmA9eF4ejXzSZz/FYVZatWi1h8hcn+d/u4A8hzllc5X5ev8UDd7 o1DaMFKgucJTKDszyfbF6S53cmhEWemUzaw2N/WsPL0IrNO8WVRipjuZ50UYkXoRLwqZ puIsA2M5CF3pBp4kPsCkKG5g+NnoU9/43uoVauThsX4E9rUeoqrTkV4NoCCH5fhEOvWl i2+yQNDnenEHgSVg4KjiT4Tp4EOskGjA4ESfKqOyFh68zRbJVgs/DIchIgDiYdkQbSj7 riTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QeFkJ1Kl6Vu2Zq4CdYhrIMxMAIYjQjB8Xf7h50xF31Y=; b=UvXlBHSm9YPjKO0+iMMHZUyuQutgbYXLt99+pha1qxrJcgKShbR9Nb4aoBlQ+ij+Gl sRqCizqRW7nF2M63oYmGPhRat9VDPAbguaLD63Z6UbwySzr48grEEgGD8hE9SOUVbfTi DxmP4bcZH1lHJkoCN2igJJfrS0eC0lLSOpqJafUPuPNd0ep9hRPJaHQ1KDJHrMx+yyWZ 1r5BlG3joW1P9A+yUANdbY4YVdbg/xEctvWF4sHiBCUGW/f3p2fQ0ZRCeKPxw6GWC1bP pi52yd4ReD60t9fx322OnjPlQSZIn9lvudzvnqIjeMMLRJIAyHGoVxsTbemZ7pERV2TQ tKLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora91Zs6O19iEBibaUVlyhC3CSZn8Yjep6UzK37oOW/6mesmQWcJ7 s3AXzTwaaLTD3AdVLb0vCOwzn74nLxL4R6eIU6glhg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1udS5B65y8Gl7BbN2hGLRDykNUdP88NQm9O/hn7w9tUgl9+R5DlwVqFHDBUPKoMs3R9QGBfcBYAwZcr48w/ux4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:15a1:b0:478:f6ad:c9d7 with SMTP id bp33-20020a05651215a100b00478f6adc9d7mr2348343lfb.198.1655423053284; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:44:02 +1000 Message-ID: To: Rob Pike Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: A7QV26CHWXOCTCXWRNMKCR2YFZEN6OKI X-Message-ID-Hash: A7QV26CHWXOCTCXWRNMKCR2YFZEN6OKI X-MailFrom: ggm@algebras.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: forgotten versions List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Another take on this is Mike Lesk's saying "its easy to occupy a vacuum its harder to push something aside" said of UUCP. v7 exploded into the world, and made BSD and SunOS happen. v8 and 9 and 10 had to work harder to get mindshare because something was already there. things like rc were too "confrontational" to a mind attuned to bourne shell. Sockets (which btw, totally SUCK PUS) were coded into things and even (YECHH) made POSIX and IETF spec status. Streams didn't stand a chance. basically, v7 succeeded too well, for v8/9/10 to get mindshare. I agree it sucks they aren't documented, its just wrong: Serious OS history needs to look beyond the narrow path in view. I'd say anyone who doesn't write about them at length hasn't done their homework. -G On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 9:18 AM George Michaelson wrote: > > you're not wrong, but the other take on this is that the AT&T > licensing and some other things tended to make the circle of people > who could "see" this code significantly smaller than those feeding off > Unix 32V/v7 -> BSD -> Solaris. > > this isn't meant to imply you did anything "wrong" -It was probably a > huge distraction having randoms begging for a tape of v8/9/10 with low > to no willingness to "give back" > > -G > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 9:06 AM Rob Pike wrote: > > > > Excited as I was to see this history of Unix code in a single repositor= y: > > > > https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo > > > > it continues the long-standing tradition of ignoring all the work done = at Bell Labs after v7. I consider v8 v9 v10 to be worth of attention, even = influential, but to hear this list talk about it - or discussions just abou= t anywhere else - you'd think they never existed. There are exceptions, but= this site does reinforce the broadly known version of the story. > > > > It's doubly ironic for me because people often mistakenly credit me for= working on Unix, but I landed at the Labs after v7 was long dispatched. At= the Labs, I first worked on what became v8. > > > > I suppose it's because the history flowed as this site shows, with BSD = being the driving force for a number of reasons, but it feels to me that a = large piece of Unix history has been sidelined. > > > > I know it's a whiny lament, but those neglected systems had interesting= advances. > > > > -rob > >