From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13853 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2021 03:55:44 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Mar 2021 03:55:44 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CE60C9B5F0; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 13:55:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF819B580; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 13:54:58 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="Khpmcwa9"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D307F9B580; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 13:54:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f53.google.com (mail-lf1-f53.google.com [209.85.167.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92F349B550 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 13:54:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f53.google.com with SMTP id x4so30711192lfu.7 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 19:54:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FBbePJbVy2HEeS/b2LdTipueXLn6D6ZGb3tcUpRGUL8=; b=Khpmcwa9a3OJ7PgiPjvlQnYRXc4K+itbka/rKZ5uwCIXok1TK9m5RG2YR92b0NDAmi jKzB8DsN3AR8MPttyoBJ4hNh+Q8zJ6ZwGXpH5vRMSXDgwtR6QtLHqYTNR8a3ovp3LOWh dGUKwdHIjzDC88NTx7ezMT7x1WeR2l0l8gZ9UNo7pzc72MCR1MlbjDwTJBKWUjt0JRfY xeCWqWo/5iSfQiqVxQTJ68cQIe1s0ZgHM2fSQfgWThupyzFns49+ztasrf16yk1g9q6i vpJqnZ27Nal9IhHNfkuUMfgsHRRRXCh4CUy39LWsaA1qy6blkx+QHVJUzm+84jSZDVdn EFpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=FBbePJbVy2HEeS/b2LdTipueXLn6D6ZGb3tcUpRGUL8=; b=XHfZ68rtosWtkys3DjTxFXVBcJRwPv7D1teIQO4O50RSL2CfweJPBqsvG1xmoT/fS/ JzFtdVgHDFfdyOQFoigN+O6KH4HqyIJXzEObvq1RroDIjqar1LTXqETPKV08YM8o+DDu zaoALLebZU3OdHJ+6URkCA/I+87GwOWG6QeZUJMfNbpQN7FxH75gQHiiLAjyZuzG+kTF WZ5Bh3jkRLLfGQdYAXRW4OIoBZm63oQGUVsugvb5vh7GLAq7le8m6CiDeIY/QPcXhp2r MT/roWtQix/udjsNOyf8Xp8fs5DBMn6xy7PLApisDJI6lV65WcaRf0HGmdJzT2oH+z6G R29g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532F3XaRHw83ud+G95YdFQtnpHcaM4UzDDqt5Z+zH3/HWtjZL6KT nnVo2Sw0xSmPgL9Ght4ub5+VKjJH15QpDOocWV8W1TUgxxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkbj8/LsHWFyd7I49fbp6eOe+sKfpzEDdpBuyuZ/JKyXS+D8vIMQ38QX0p0w06oapZEXaWC7RIyxHXWsIL0Ts= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:4c4:: with SMTP id w4mr1071063lfq.91.1615434890135; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 19:54:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210309162128.692CF640CB6@lignose.oclsc.org> <20210309202255.3doIj%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20210310183733.GA14019@box.prefix.duckdns.org> In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 13:54:39 +1000 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] manual humour (was tunefs -m 5%) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I Still use ed periodically. Less often, but sometimes. Sometimes, its for nostalgia. It never lasts. The past isn't as rosy as we like to think it was. You have to be very confident you know what your doing, to not wind up saying p a lot, to "see" it. It demands you think. Sometimes, it's for functionality. You kind of know you could do this in sed, but, you aren't 100% sure, ed means you can "look" at some /match lines and then craft the s/pat/repl/ and wq and go home. Thats kind of using p too. Sometimes, it's for expediency. You stuffed up. Nothing else seems to work. This editor works. Hammer, screw.. good enough. Ed can cope with very large data better than some alternatives. Less litter. I hate finding .swp files and vi -r is frankly disgusting. Its indeterminite what it is r(ecovering) from. don't get me started on #file or file~ trash either. I loved ed, and I lived in ed far more than ex/vi until about 1985/6 when something flipped. I think its possible, that vi muscle memory took over, and jove/gosmacs/emacs became too confusing (I had flirted with this but not coding LISP made it silly, I was really only using the keystroke-recording macro to do dirty edits by "yea, same as the last time" tricks) Mike Lesk showed me MGR. I actually got really depressed at that point. I felt like I'd been working under a rock, not understanding what was possible. Sunview kind of also sucked me in, with an emphasis on Sucked because it did. Not really about the editor, but the whole "ok THIS is what efficient looks like" combined with tiling and other things, it just made ed sort-of walk into the background a bit. Hard to focus when you're being offered a vision of 4D hypercube projected onto a 2D surface. I didn't stick on MGR. It was too off-beam of what other people around me were doing. I was asked if I could fix some minor nits in it, thats when I realised I lacked fundamental clue (it is also why I seem to be the only person I know who doesn't totally hate the idea of the google 'be this smart to enter' testing: It obviously DOES work to weed some people out) Socialised aspects of "what editor do you use" can't be under-estimated, for anyone who is essentially using tools not writing them. If you wrote an editor, you probably got to the right place faster. If you use one, you wind up being 10 years in before you ask yourself "how does infinite undo work really" and learn about things like Merkle trees or whatever. Editors do a lot. -G