From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29941 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2023 01:21:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Aug 2023 01:21:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210DB41007; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:21:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com (mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4046040FE1 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:21:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-56c685b7e91so255208eaf.2 for ; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 18:21:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1691025665; x=1691630465; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WHeB6u+OtKt3O0GFFSkxJtqub4WJrunP5wRwH4ko6fY=; b=WEsnaXB5hq6USKrpf7j3s8JI0LDW9wcYqwq/Tq8kteZ36lrkb9l8D1NJy9ajEn5nby a42dDZsDP0jb0E+X08HmaYSIEDOpOIHbZJlclux+T0ZMvMqS50+cjr2p5x7QAb9AJqk9 2Csdo4AAeW7I8p3W45tyOfNBNtkhY+S4BBQQZvUOlS6mDQTi7engVB2hbM7EEnrrwGPk GXSqOkBSQ0xZHalnOT37dTEUAHSUpnbA9DyPrGSgeFBCknsmFeX4VdutBAblEqlxPPiR yJUtlJPxGwpfhD1ZjbLTkdGFfTLMkZ56gNFxDsjUtqHEVGHBQd1pl+uPoGuZnTAH4eLH 0vBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691025665; x=1691630465; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WHeB6u+OtKt3O0GFFSkxJtqub4WJrunP5wRwH4ko6fY=; b=AUz0aNxP4zXpMwzVgjW5e6rnGozKFSnq7KAc5iiCNHLSHRQVZhmZMatYbokeR1rK4s ZzdNr81hflBaGiSMnBuskGNIbpbCcb/F+YjHjKNoo8PTn0hkgyzXOB3/bqjXdoWDh26d zLOR4QCSCBZ/jaDF4spl2G7osk+08ocCdStvWtGAgdrk+T/semKG3UAMnq9WzdA06tM/ A9lL2KfuxKXUzN5WzBDluecBFCGmxmkZJmMrYNzoFvhIS3oN/HI8f/6iLEubSs5EdFVS vlET/yqjOv5pz7D/7j7m3shZlzXlv15KwVAoynIXMi0izz964zjSSq+LV0xUTVXr6oRE 5vgA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLY+UYt+945EddITNhPCHOU+diuCdpekqUegXTzvlDobBeJRvvLx 6tMtImMba+MkFf+m7TQa70eKl7dyT7uqL0+rryHmpjnKSxrNXKbw X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlF3Dx2B+pkXSOAxjjUiPL4bOIpt7/3Zq2Ajmg4lrxWkjqI12HpUA94kn7zqZfiGSi855RlhlBLWZDF73QGR+go= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:300e:0:b0:56d:2229:5f94 with SMTP id q14-20020a4a300e000000b0056d22295f94mr2199787oof.6.1691025665262; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 18:21:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8246.1690761540@cesium.clock.org> <29602.1690887524@cesium.clock.org> <20230803005106.GA12652@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230803005106.GA12652@mcvoy.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:20:53 +1000 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: HKQKQXUPUME2IOT5EQNGJO5KDHJLAFVG X-Message-ID-Hash: HKQKQXUPUME2IOT5EQNGJO5KDHJLAFVG X-MailFrom: ggm@algebras.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: python List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Python has limited support for map/reduce patterns, and cannot implement lazy eval. It's functional support is no different to any classical language with an ability to apply a function over data and you can curry to your hearts content if you can define functions over functions (as arguments) Guido is on record as saying he didn't aim it as an FP language. I wouldn't cast him an FP hater, I think thats a silly concept anyway. I tried to learn a real FP language. It's hard to think in new ways. I wish I'd started sooner because I do believe the stories about the upside of investing in strong types (which are not unique to FP but are a mainstay of most of the FP which have succeeded in breaking through) The resurgence of chatter about Common LISP says something to me. I'm not sure what, possibly "all those LISP-like turn out not to be as good as they said" but there's also a resurgence in OCAML in the same places. I think the fusion of UNIX and FP was sort of a road not taken. Yes, there's lots of LISP and GHC. No, it's really an ecosystem "on top" and there are some grumpy edges to coding in FP to deploy on UNIX. Maybe it's no worse a fit than "containers" and after all, we're in Kubernetes because of Plan9, right? G