From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0993cf2f for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 08:57:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EDC749B4F1; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:57:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C27893E04; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:56:29 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="lXQ1A6jQ"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9535393E04; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:56:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-f173.google.com (mail-il1-f173.google.com [209.85.166.173]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8157593DBE for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:56:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-f173.google.com with SMTP id n18so2499884ilt.9 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:56:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GpdrqWQLf+/xYmDQmXHi60Ev1qAsN0O3cIWjATRKkNI=; b=lXQ1A6jQGFh1CBAWlenkuaBAs8Ux/ukoGx1F/4FquPTZvsm5dveI5Yb2xKE9IvQsZz 8SR/+YipNuMz1FY0C7XWAxIn5TXc5jfbKa4g3GNeWHn+dhw4n+bQhrK7eP7KwC+B/mjr q2i2/hulcZFVEpwjdw6DUAbOT8qmd9r3q1YU91NWUOVwhckiWbHdMb121PNkhG7vb76z 3ALSxNdsBSAs8uQ/peQtKpgXyw1bcdHUMQAh8wOC8KeRhU8oTZFpuPGDbDVDOUFD0ltp lh5U1oboTjKfjpUut4otyX7+eQ8XmvDwbI2vx0Y2zPTZxmRyQ1B6Wk1///SLmkrf8EMI kYpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GpdrqWQLf+/xYmDQmXHi60Ev1qAsN0O3cIWjATRKkNI=; b=dxPe5/RFp0X3vboETilCas3H/bUMTItjGkLjcUyUNLMtjJ981IMeS5dJRX7USvSb+T g4cHbdpzcpqhvbagD3+yQtHne5ThnuXaxSmJnkQq+8C37A2TXE8fhNFnza8CTgjBrpz4 ZkqYyFiBrquqqJ4cCxICDUgF2JSoMpGS9gbKdfzcb5ig3eMLnTs9z4mhrE8MRDQAs+cX Az6urRZL8erOdAfI/yISv6SPv47LVya00B5oB2CI6dXehxE0UbbA1/RlwaszfjoBuGtG g+/k32CnGjRz0N3e+klB1toP5Z/1LQMQ8kPPK/armUJVyISdUwXHa764c/XmyOUP/4h/ qrmw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXrhyNgBNH9Q8ZrgBIdwKnfbSoxgcvQ1bkWYxCtLf+FU0GGwAHV Yaq0S6hREyziktupqppeWBylcSTUXbqefaH7H52ig7EdyIg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqznmXTxkE//GClr7rrdNJGIL4f+rIMnKF86Q/gwGw2NRJHQ1Z4MjMDMKX1aR9d2ic0Q2PwpVfRTtMXh1iT605I= X-Received: by 2002:a92:3dd8:: with SMTP id k85mr9672338ilf.176.1574326584789; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:56:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201911191901.xAJJ1d76006989@skeeve.com> <20191121031423.GC23794@mcvoy.com> <20191121032832.GD23794@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20191121032832.GD23794@mcvoy.com> From: George Michaelson Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:56:13 +0800 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Steve Bellovin recounts the history of USENET X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" uk.* and eu.* seem to be unfindable. Stuff from before the great USENET re-org is mostly unfindable. cross posting to lists, only partially visible. I've tried to find my own rants, its like I was born into the world in 1996. What happened to 1982-onward? It just .. evaporated. If things have improved, I'd be happy to wish it true, but what I recall is the archives were bootstrapped from tapes held by people who felt it was the best they could do, in a time where people didn't really keep ephemera, and alas, the stuff wasn't all, it was the view of all. which some people saw. I think uk.* never left the island. Maybe this is one of those definitions things: we used the A and B news protocol, we used UUCP, we were on USENET, but if we weren't in the backbone cabal, its like we didn't exist. People love to talk about shebang addressing (me too, and VMS a::b::c) but Honey-Danber, was the shizzle. They made the world so much simpler, by doing the obvious flattening of the pathspace into namespace, with path dealt with elsewhere. moving to a@somewhere was god-given help to morons. Shebang paths sucked. (It would not surprise me for a hk.* and jp.* and su.* and the like to say: "brother, you have no idea") On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:28 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:18:10AM +0800, George Michaelson wrote: > > there is a big US bias in the archives of USENET. All I could find > > preserved (before Google deleted it) was my updates to the maps for > > York.ac.uk. In collecting history, the US erased most of Europe and > > Asia basically. Our timelines are artificially compressed into the > > modern era. > > Can you explain this a bit? When I was on Usenet, 1980-1990 or so, it > was very small, my guess is maybe 10,000 people that posted, maybe less. > My memory is I could post a question to comp.arch or where ever, and I'd > wake up in the morning and someone from Australia or some other place > over the pond had an answer. It was usually a grad student or a prof > or someone really smart. > > So is this an archive thing? Because in my memory, it was not a Usenet > thing, smart people from all over the world posted. > > As an aside, I remember being on a canoe with my dad, a physics researcher > and prof, and trying to explain Usenet to him. I said something like > "it is so cool Dad, so many cool people, everyone should be on it". And > then AOL happened and it went to shit. If my thoughts helped that along > I am _so_ sorry. It was awesome when it was small. > > This list is sort of like early Usenet, smart people, people who know the > history. Lets keep it small but Steve should be here. > > --lm