From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7580 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2021 00:04:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Nov 2021 00:04:28 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0ADE49CE9F; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:04:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BEC9CE5D; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:01:30 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="SGGwqKTR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 847A19CE5D; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:01:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (mail-lf1-f52.google.com [209.85.167.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6751F94942 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:01:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id m27so27737958lfj.12 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:01:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YSdwG2iYxcY9KVTsfVjUHxfTw/KLWrteLRlAn5D8DaU=; b=SGGwqKTRW5pZazXcPbt4T7xktaEl6FBep+29h5ipbUWyIrXko4XeVGt1mvBnwX3R0j hufxNfmcIp6AUYMWY+qlqbZSXiIujqkg3iIxtyBCEw0rAW2C5HyQbPDgbDC8EhRcCqrz FJncP/u4tGtNS+ZBZEYqHySwVaTHfNk4FCYZEHRMXCNmYW2T3d3VPNWPZ441vuBIXj3H eVffdntlZOiS38ku3GBAJPYzwfOGwskVJgq17wtl7hrgUwkCxv6xvcjNsAImItWFxBUZ 7mUiY7ld/Za7n56+wCupCCn3kDl7ejx2zJmE6agAXVwB/tNj/f38zAQEC0E0yjoX7SoQ LPPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=YSdwG2iYxcY9KVTsfVjUHxfTw/KLWrteLRlAn5D8DaU=; b=YxFpsOXyn6PwwsTjHMz+JyOStPKIzn4Kwfy4kbDzNrZdVRJnfDq2hln4UaCBaaPef7 E0i8kLgyuFCQqJtEvwFtm00FkpbPk30k1F2ehgY2RW5jCs/RZeliU6f5ZSKZv1Er2OhV kqYMdxz9TK65hfePIcH88cPw9YXc5eeBe09SO+MnH1gNtS7TTHhaRcHWXdts8Hd0GEpI dQSKHVVICKmBieGgx4vE5GCOW0DiqnMtkpSuYwNVWYpFcgv9FAjRhsNBMP3rVZf0ZmG3 cuZ2nX6o3zoYvK4TaWhXo9feWoTbkNE0+UyZjlmHt9ULLYFh1MoNiMDBFAHk3MDv8oWv O0Ug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531yVm/sGjJ3cJN5dEJ/UODI9BsXbJ7458sAAlBQNYX5+8GcYgbR xpV55n1PL6A56OqAFMir1ZTX2l540kO1Kwv0mw8rFsGyogqfVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwH3oKUNMjYsGWmTC3P1BCxTwRxo0wBk7KvIaxCOC87a11RnfEt0XBl3pttR90uQO0+JIp/m/Nw72RXJqeELwI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:36c9:: with SMTP id e9mr32728509lfs.87.1637971284537; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:01:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:01:13 +1000 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091488105d1b9e8ba" Subject: Re: [TUHS] PL/I stuff - was: Book Recommendation X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000091488105d1b9e8ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I've always felt a huge disconnect between the decus tape philosophy of code, and the IBM approach of "this software feature costs you more" about things like language extensions and -O(n) flags (to use modern c compiler mental models) I did find the hardware trick of detuning the clock to sell more boxes and charging to remove the resistors also a bit iffy but I kind of understood it. But, being asked by some major client (defence) to implement recursion support and then charging everyone feels like the business model designed to kick start people cutting their own code to stop depending in yours -and I believe this is somewhat the story of university multi access systems on IBM and these seven dwarf competitors. Burroughs by comparison had (I am told, I didn't use them) shit hot code, the kernel was in a ci/cd deployment framework with smarts. And DEC had the decus tapes and everything in VMS was on microfiche. On Sat, 27 Nov 2021, 7:24 am John Cowan, wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 3:32 PM Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS < > tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote: > > Is there any relationship, other than pure coincidence, between this >> naming scheme and DEC's F, G, and H floating point number formats? >> > > I don't think so. The System/360 letters referred specifically to the > amount of memory available, so a D compiler would run on a D machine with > 256K, and E/F/G were 512K/1M/2M. > > The DEC floats were an extension of Fortran's exponent letters: D=double, > E=generic, F=single. G is a variant of F with a different > mantissa/exponent balance, and H is double double. S and T floats came > later and were bit-for-bit compatible with IEEE binary32 and binary64 > formats. Lisp went a different way: to D, E, F they added S for small > floats and L for large floats. > --00000000000091488105d1b9e8ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've always felt a huge disconnect between the decus = tape philosophy of code, and the IBM approach of "this software featur= e costs you more" about things like language extensions and -O(n) flag= s (to use modern c compiler mental models)

I did find the hardware trick of detuning the clock to sell mo= re boxes and charging to remove the resistors also a bit iffy but I kind of= understood it. But, being asked by some major client (defence) to implemen= t recursion support and then charging everyone feels like the business mode= l designed to kick start people cutting their own code to stop depending in= yours -and I believe this is somewhat the story of university multi access= systems on IBM and these seven dwarf competitors. Burroughs by comparison = had (I am told, I didn't use them) shit hot code, the kernel was in a c= i/cd deployment framework with smarts. And DEC had the decus tapes and ever= ything in VMS was on microfiche.

=
On Sat, 27 Nov 2021, 7:24 am John Cow= an, <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
=


On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 3:32 PM Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via = TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:

Is there any relationship, other than pure coincidence, between this
naming scheme and DEC's F, G, and H floating point number formats?
<= /blockquote>

I don't think so.= =C2=A0 The System/360 letters referred specifically to the amount of memory= available, so a D compiler would run on a D machine with 256K, and E/F/G w= ere 512K/1M/2M.

The DEC floats were an extension of Fortran's=C2=A0exponent let= ters:=C2=A0 D=3Ddouble, E=3Dgeneric, F=3Dsingle.=C2=A0 G is a variant of F = with a different mantissa/exponent balance, and H is double double.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0S and T floats came later and were bit-for-bit compatible with IEEE b= inary32 and binary64 formats.=C2=A0 Lisp went a different way: to D, E, F t= hey added S for small floats and L for large floats.
--00000000000091488105d1b9e8ba--