From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 302cab45 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 02:03:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 303649C022; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:03:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E43947CC; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:03:03 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="KxMpSK5R"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D54BF947CC; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:03:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f41.google.com (mail-io1-f41.google.com [209.85.166.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF61E947A2 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:03:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q1so3873431ion.1 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:03:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=db47WKk1gst3kIlca4qy7b0QX8kpC51tXta7FQQ9FCM=; b=KxMpSK5RLvyJK+A9f+Kht486xCXVgdj7C7H0aSNIpyjFBDeW9t3VnIn1vkLIxmE7VN YBri4hOZgxmt86Ez2Qf/tbvjqYItpfVEImio5yjqbYiYYyOaC59zvHfLnXlLXyTduww7 NDBD5oIdimcaWPyHREvq02k44ZRhHzKhNKviOdr79GQkE7JyPFqJcxkW/k5Eq+R+RltX MFSh4zC8y0AW+TnqcWOEcrKzAG9lT/+RUrpte527t2r2eHQBzWx4pqUyzWOkxGdarAVH SoOWQ/ZXAoeB1dJ+YKZnelHkIrJNzfFiSpFjpanyA8KCqubwz5i13IXWlFwOSLZrBkDK nGVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=db47WKk1gst3kIlca4qy7b0QX8kpC51tXta7FQQ9FCM=; b=JnfLa9UzmCLpYclK+0OyCLjQHYOn9fSxPDdy3rF2gwejb2VSr1wnVEwlGHQFPcXLGT uRmS9dE8yrcUm0EnD/gYsI35xQe2pFXb0gFBiserqS0uspKoFMRE6rYuccz80nu7iGie eI6Kac/82OiXTGRZxzO5hPrkqTNIAYxf2d4EltmpzSyvkIUMF1TchlSPEPfRGsmoyYHd tvOQnD3ZCkXGPsChdqQGvGT9W75bHLsIKu1k5EtcnVr6M8e1DoSTRtsIYs4p2xje/K4q TUxVLf0EToNODcl3Ij6hWH4WGZBKeX9GWVHyOonTSPf1OgHi6EAQIFjEvwwoC6WJG009 UNAw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX4bOWn0CORbtOjoYcLdVb6JrJXCfHaRm5sUQhYvYVYBakU8IBK 57C6ngjAqI5Ugp5pT/PH0E8LhXbXV7niYCabEqPlvnMOnas= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLgFpnqb/uYu9SI6OCbnNNPByyxP6SyQj9zw2kDGc7i6Km6fG/sU13HASdGMTmmhVhoux8fJoYlOFLtIbrznY= X-Received: by 2002:a02:2b2e:: with SMTP id h46mr1400477jaa.141.1568685780197; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:03:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201909170020.x8H0KWC6037690@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <20190917004233.4cgn6vabnmgwl5q5@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20190917004233.4cgn6vabnmgwl5q5@localhost.localdomain> From: George Michaelson Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:02:49 +1000 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] block operations in editors, was My EuroBSDcon talk X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I also went vim, wanting nvi to be there but Keith Bostic lost impetus or motivation. I am not in love with vim, I still feel like its got a lot of glitter, but with the keystrokes for homekeys burned into my brain it was the best choice. I use ed periodically to remind myself what reductionism in editors means. I used atom and visual basic, they're ok for what they are. Vim also gave me syntax colouring. again, I was suprised how quickly I came to use it, having decried it. I guess like food, in matters of (editor) taste there is no good disputation. Sam didn't get into my frontal lobes quickly enough. I think if 8th and plan9 had been only TWO years earlier out the door, a lot of the world would look different. I look at kubernetes now, I live in it actually, and I feel like inferno was leading me there but I got there via very twisty paths. Really, what I think UNIX missed the most, was the plumber. GTK and KDE and the like dance around the problem of cut-paste between processes in ways which I am led to believe the plumber fixed long ago. Another thing which had it been only two years earlier, might have got us to a more cohered space. "first, kill all the lawyers" is probably the subtitle of a UNIX book. Counterfactuals. -G On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:42 AM G. Branden Robinson wrote: > > At 2019-09-16T20:20:32-0400, Doug McIlroy wrote: > > Ed imposes a structure, making a (finite) file into an array, aka > > list, of lines. It's easy to define block moves and copies in a list. > > But what are the semantics of a block move, wherein one treats the > > list as a ragged-right 2D array? What gets pushed aside? In what > > direction? How does a block move into column that not all destination > > rows reach? How do you cope when the bottom gets ragged? How about the > > top? Can one move blocks of tab-separated fields? > > > > I think everyone has rued the lack of block operations at one time or > > another. But implementing them in any degree of generality is a > > stumbling block. What should the semantics be? > > Just in case anyone didn't know, Vim has what it calls "visual block" > highlighting and operations. CTRL-V begins one and you use the usual > movement keys to shape and size it, then an operator like (y)ank or > (d)elete. > > It won't always work as one expects because of the very questions that > Doug raises above. > > Vim also has characterwise blocks (begin with 'v') and linewise blocks > (begin with 'V'). > > The last is, more than any other single factor, what pulled me over from > traditional vi (really nvi in my case). It was a big win over > line-counting with ":.,+n" expressions. In retrospect I should have > been smarter and just typed ":.,/pattern/", using as /pattern/ some > short string that did not appear in any of the lines I wanted to operate > on. > > Though the vi clone with the best name was, indisputably, elvis. > > Regards, > Branden