From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1095 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2022 22:42:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Jun 2022 22:42:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC5B40C39; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:42:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f178.google.com (mail-lj1-f178.google.com [209.85.208.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6C0D409BA for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:42:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f178.google.com with SMTP id s10so12686368ljh.12 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:42:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WYcO5HlAeHj9CA0xoIJpsoVZp+I8QKrHEJkIym3Gdf8=; b=kulBFn5RJEIJnUmIHISMOfPCUHzLlJ6kOdTPKwosVrQj/Vw4tVrRr3EIuKuA02btOA UmkznU137CvQsNLdjttoOR6MhA2qfLhvQOYei7k0xkeJllAj/omf57ZZlV5Xgljj4YSR f+Ugmq6A0a0QS3v0gz7cZndK9kEOR5XyMbY8lAaxdSwaB6xTHNkZydYSVbyZtFRscl25 rVtTTzAbUQRybK9ivxf8G18R85CUpOcIh8zUw6ZzbHFPCGVUSusnyTeMqyTOuZTIrBWp nMdVzYuMrVn/28QiMJt7t/Wou+vXY6+MKnWToKng/Fg2eGLBGQkHwLVf0tXLO0DnhneP OsKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WYcO5HlAeHj9CA0xoIJpsoVZp+I8QKrHEJkIym3Gdf8=; b=SsfR87sh1T0qjk+FNdRGLUaCEStWL+cObGgkfAycxazlRaHEE4ow3Vmw/JAQ1/nTJ/ 9LmK9zbqG9BFexUNuaEc5aup+eb9mWp2nGEcevBsbXipVNieptt/1KxQLDXQt3CwLTlL Nznvdp1z9k8Y9vehWFZ6Dbv0R7m+aDPIwWdBYn7g8ERTHjUxDUQqKj0WsdLHDEIySArk 7NzhMWVrRFs8+B0Y6L7pacXsdhlscp2I2kotn+apnXUEvcb95fBK0lkZCvduj9rEEtRD hXPQ+t54brpRhj8jHE6hcIeiLEjtKkEJq/J4XAg47Zyrq3RivvVDk96Q+8CfUJDaWTud LMJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+mus8zIQmU2Noh0qFI33LM1qkrLWpHwI8ilOP5+MG/AtlRQq+I 0iO3wFYR/1kO5Jf705nhY/zijuCRqOM9Idm6IL+hY260jY8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tGdifSBm+680mcCPn6QPLfb5i+sSFwhagfDhdVDr5DOLIz4kUPT+q3CjVV1E+CFoTHFnXanYcBcBZc7hEZZc4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9417:0:b0:25a:7efc:4657 with SMTP id i23-20020a2e9417000000b0025a7efc4657mr7611656ljh.349.1656369669001; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220627214023.1511218C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20220627214023.1511218C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: George Michaelson Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:40:57 +1000 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: XK2INW3U5O2SAMO5AGFR22VFDHSBVANK X-Message-ID-Hash: XK2INW3U5O2SAMO5AGFR22VFDHSBVANK X-MailFrom: ggm@algebras.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Research Datakit notes List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: I did an analysis of the DFZ with Emile Aben at RIPE. There may be a million now, but at least half of these are TE and functionally irrelevant to 90%+ of the rest of the BGP speakers, being aimed at immediate peers only. If we renumbered, the count of real announcements becomes very much smaller, close to the count of ASN, modulo some necessary unaggegatable outcomes. Geoff has done work on this too, the ratio between noisy speakers and the stable speakers appear to be constants modulo natural growth. (Geoff says hello btw) -G On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 7:41 AM Noel Chiappa wrote: > > > From: Paul Ruizendaal > > > Will read those RFC's, though -- thank you for pointing them out. > > Oh, I wouldn't bother - unless you are really into routing (i.e. path > selection). > > RFC-1992 in particular; it's got my name on it, but it was mostly written by > Martha and Isidro, and I'm not entirely happy with it. E.g. CSC mode and CSS > mode (roughly, strict source route and loose source route); I wasn't really > sold on them, but I was too tired to argue about it. Nimrod was complicated > enough without adding extra bells and whistles - and indeed, LSR and SSR are > basically unused to this day in the Internet (at least, at the internet > layer; MPLS does provide the ability to specify paths, which I gather is used > to some degree). I guess it's an OK overview of the architecture, though. > > RFC-1753 is not the best overview, but it has interesting bits. E.g. 2.2 > Packet Format Fields, Option 2: "The packet contains a stack of flow-ids, > with the current one on the top." If this reminds you of MPLS, it should! > (One can think of MPLS as Nimrod's packet-carrying subsystem, in some ways.) > > I guess I should mention that Nimrod covers more stuff - a lot more - than > just path selection. That's because I felt that the architecture embodied in > IPv4 was missing lots of things which one would need to do the internet layer > 'right' in a global-scale Internet (e.g. variable length 'addresses' - for > which we were forced to invent the term 'locator' because many nitwits in the > IETF couldn't wrap their minds around 'addresses' which weren't in every > packet header). And separation of location and identity; and the introduction > of traffic aggregates as first-class objects at the internet layer. Etc, etc, > etc. > > Nimrod's main focus was really on i) providing a path-selection system which > allowed things like letting users have more input to selecting the path their > traffic took (just as when one gets into a car, one gets to pick the path > one's going to use), and ii) controlling the overhead of the routing. > > Of course, on the latter point, in the real world, people just threw > resources (memory, computing power, bandwidth) at the problem. I'm kind of > blown away< that there are almost 1 million routes in the DFZ these days. > Boiling frogs... > > Noel