From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0468b951 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 03:52:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2EB599C147; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:52:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6F99C10B; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:52:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="vJzww6m4"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EC3E49C10B; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:52:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com (mail-io1-f43.google.com [209.85.166.43]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE0929C0FD for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:52:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id k24so32148265ioc.4 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 19:52:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6u68bfgMMlFIlGJCWys74I4yN8RpgZ20sL0xl7av15g=; b=vJzww6m4j5eGvDQS7BUc/wt8rxjzo10XuEpKvEsuU61SP50y7XsIu32vU72Qgm9jKY a1s7A9TPWtkTTknLxxxY+23Ra7CN25o0BRRNli8Z/Wo33zKbA2EJ6y3VqycX7csy8r4A XxsAO7CyXyuiEzxDHiIdAu4MYNon4xv5mOsHb5Gj4t7a0wkknZOpODOmv2daJZCgY+pT kTBzW5a7AN4S6EBtgitX93G1dBgOxZxXt8f1mN7/Mwm/Nq+PKjO+b0xnU4IT+yO3xBeN zA8BpYlG500Y9KttspnHAJNlgF3B+wmF1L2arHmjmzmwnKtP3vOLTsApTMmd0TwJTSsn WZ6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=6u68bfgMMlFIlGJCWys74I4yN8RpgZ20sL0xl7av15g=; b=uU0IvDUzMOXLTPFNzpnEBvYwjOQBkK6cOUsBzksy7bB2jVt56KS2f9Bh3nkhstcIAr /cLfYYffXxNbrB9ntp4bjavWvBqLZ7MOoIUygFeno57wgwn0KcOh4RFmkJU2ubKnaI+A OWfpXi2G39V0RcWRvNyODUvZVENtDB3ok/NWdk2L/LWK10KcPtwNSsraKb8RULgo6FFb 1GvbT0sgCaOEFEIYpHDLPjy91W++xX32teJGyN0Wbqj1/6z/GeH09kCLgWLZaCGar1e0 86ttQpZF9jEgCbiYfqY6Nn2y7DoYsqRUlLYLGiqOoRUPs9mUU0TOjb+evLRNA5Nhf5eu 1pfA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVJ92y8RBFsx2r6G57wZjNyXiCNgshu9MlP+r/6rkeByULRPWuB iVMMsSJembq2b4H4vKmgMMQawQzdAJCPzo3YEnW2C1+lnT4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzuqnjN6h/o5c2oc43yEXBp922+KCP1H96yHNr4t80+FeZBEXZuEtaRwfWDZoJmyomYXuVpIb80gy7xAGttk2Y= X-Received: by 2002:a02:c90a:: with SMTP id t10mr41310833jao.25.1579492326788; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 19:52:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200117195908.GF15253@ancienthardware.org> <20200118035051.GC481935@mit.edu> <20200118041913.GB67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119024900.GA15860@mit.edu> <20200119031225.GI67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119035808.GK67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119132551.GC15860@mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:51:55 +1000 Message-ID: To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Early Linux and BSD (was: On the origins of Linux - "an academic question") X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" It does me no credit, that I initially reacted very badly to 386BSD, and the initial {Net,Free,Open} situation. I found all this "fragmentation" pretty hard to understand. -BSDI felt like it had occupied the space, and I couldn't entirely understand what was going on, or why any of it mattered. I also reacted very badly to the public dirty linen spats around the Jolitz's IPR, and who-did-what to-whom in woodshed, with colonel mustard and the lead pipe. What worried me was the loss of intellectual capital. People I liked online, and respected, seemed to be running to the four winds. Why was something I worked with turning to suck? What I think I missed (didn't understand) was how draining support was for Berkeley, and in the absence of a sugar daddy (Earth Sciences? DOE? IBM?) and loss of contracts like the NSFNet support for BSD-rt (they stopped using PC-Rt as a platform for routing) It was increasingly hard for a teaching and research institution to justify what was going on. Sun spun out of Stanford. MIT was doing the Gui work. Compilers had gone really funny with Gnu and an income stream had evaporated, and a lawsuit was in the offing, and people who hadn't done full on DOTCOM boom vesting suddenly found growing old and not having a 401k at the scale they needed to maintain a wine cellar ... What I also missed is that it stopped innovating. People were innovating in other places, doing things I didn't understand. I totally did NOT get what 8th ed. and Plan9 was on. Drugs I couldn't fathom. Nothing lasts forever. Had you said to me "ha.. VMS is going to die, and Dec is going to die, and Sun is going to fold into Larry Ellisons personal empire" I'd have taken every one of those bets on what turned out to be the loosing side.