From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> To: Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> Subject: Re: [TUHS] roff(7) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:07:49 +1000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CAKr6gn3bZ2Ac99gTknNRd8CVMAQB0+ArbtYCU9OOdOeLJvw-iA@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CAKH6PiX6bfsSw+N2zABfwuA8+cW_haiYh6bQzefMjnqTWJ8u8Q@mail.gmail.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2401 bytes --] In 79-82 Runoff got me my undergraduate texts formatted on a dec10. Moving to work post degree on Unix and vms systems (my memory is that for some reason VMS didn't have runoff) I had the Normalised "oh this must be the same" hitting roff/nroff and got really confused by having both ms and me macros. Nobody seemed to be able to explain to me why you wanted both (the mysteries and distinctions of v<X> vs BSD were completely lost to me at this early stage). But macros aside, anyone who had used runoff had a massively simpler path into roff than TeX. My future was set. The phd students at Leeds looked down their noses at me for using cryptic .2 letter inline magic. They were the high priests of things, I was just a computer operator. Watching them spend weeks and weeks wrangling a one em offset problem stopping perfection in print was.. entertaining. Then we somehow got ditroff at Leeds uni. That was really weird, because it was obviously "better" but again nobody could explain why the di- bit magically appeared. (We had a Benson- Varian slimey paper printer at some fantastical dpi like 120 or 150 which turned up at the same time.) wasn't this just Troff? Oh God, was it really called t/roff not troff... The entire production path to lpr had some driver logic to put "--" cut marks on the continuous paper so you knew where to guillotine from the roll, but unfortunately was wired to US legal paper sizes not A4 (presumably some macro definitions file would have fixed this) I still have a poem from the British computer society about the birth of the icl 2900 typeset in olde English, centred. That Benson-Varian must have used damn good printing because it's still readable 40 years later when parking tickets (similar print process?) Fade out in a day. It was also around the time that "tbl" had what we all thought was a bug, drawing the horizontal boxlines off by one. Nobody at the time understood this was to counteract a specific electromechanical printer issue inside AT&T. Since it was coming in BSD Unix I can imagine back inside Berkeley people binning our complaints. If you don't remember which 1200bpi tape the software came from, don't just complain at random... The "pic" tool had also just hit, and it obviously didn't share those line offset problems which made us all very suspicious: "ITS THE SAME PEOPLES CODE" we shouted at each other (it wasnt) ... G [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2871 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-31 23:08 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 101+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-12-31 15:47 Douglas McIlroy 2021-12-31 23:07 ` George Michaelson [this message] 2021-12-31 23:40 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-01 0:56 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-01 3:15 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-10 19:00 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-10 20:21 ` Jon Forrest 2022-01-11 22:48 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-11 23:18 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-12 1:19 ` Dave Horsfall 2022-01-12 1:46 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-12 2:12 ` Bakul Shah 2022-01-12 15:49 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-12 16:22 ` Adam Thornton 2022-01-12 0:06 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-12 1:48 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-12 0:29 ` Nemo Nusquam 2022-01-12 1:53 ` Blake McBride [not found] ` <E3CC4B8A-4E88-4339-A4D3-4ED26BA80620@gmail.com> 2022-01-12 0:44 ` Jon Forrest 2022-01-12 2:00 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-12 2:10 ` David Arnold 2022-01-12 2:26 ` Adam Thornton 2022-01-12 19:54 ` John Cowan 2022-01-13 10:13 ` Thomas Paulsen 2022-01-13 20:00 ` John Cowan 2022-01-10 20:33 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-10 20:37 ` Richard Salz 2022-01-10 21:04 ` Dan Cross 2022-01-10 21:48 ` Nemo Nusquam 2022-01-11 2:25 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) 2022-01-11 2:47 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-22 2:34 ` [TUHS] troff environments, traps, and diversions (was: TeX and groff) Branden Robinson 2022-01-22 16:02 ` Douglas McIlroy 2022-01-23 19:45 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-23 22:26 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-11 1:52 ` [TUHS] Recognizing TeX (was: TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-12 1:19 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Mary Ann Horton 2022-01-12 2:03 ` Blake McBride 2022-01-12 2:10 ` Bakul Shah 2022-01-12 3:44 ` Dan Cross 2022-01-12 16:48 ` Steffen Nurpmeso 2022-01-10 20:46 ` Steffen Nurpmeso 2022-01-11 1:59 ` [TUHS] Demise of " Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-11 2:13 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) 2022-01-11 2:42 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-11 5:12 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-11 5:59 ` John Labovitz 2022-01-11 8:57 ` arnold 2022-01-11 20:15 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-11 20:22 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-11 20:26 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-11 20:36 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-11 20:41 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-11 20:49 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-11 21:03 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-11 8:50 ` arnold 2022-01-11 14:00 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-12 23:22 ` [TUHS] troff or groff? (was: Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-12 23:29 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey 2022-01-12 23:32 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-11 15:47 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Clem Cole 2022-01-11 16:55 ` Richard Salz 2022-01-11 18:49 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-11 19:20 ` John Cowan 2022-01-11 20:06 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-11 23:57 ` Warner Losh 2022-01-12 0:03 ` Warner Losh 2022-01-12 8:54 ` arnold 2022-01-12 15:17 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-12 16:33 ` Dan Cross 2022-01-12 18:06 ` [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU G. Branden Robinson 2022-01-12 18:34 ` Dan Halbert 2022-01-12 22:48 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-12 23:27 ` Charles H. Sauer 2022-01-13 0:35 ` Adam Thornton 2022-01-12 20:01 ` Dan Cross 2022-01-12 22:32 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-13 2:38 ` John Labovitz 2022-01-13 7:42 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2022-01-13 13:47 ` John Labovitz 2022-01-12 8:48 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) arnold 2022-01-12 15:51 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-12 15:57 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-12 15:56 ` Clem Cole 2022-01-11 3:22 ` Adam Thornton 2022-01-12 0:32 ` Nemo Nusquam 2022-01-01 20:00 ` [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ] Jon Steinhart 2022-01-02 0:12 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-02 1:04 ` John Cowan 2022-01-02 1:20 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-02 1:47 ` Steve Nickolas 2022-01-02 2:12 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-02 3:56 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-02 1:48 ` Jon Steinhart 2022-01-02 3:04 ` John Cowan 2022-01-02 3:30 ` Warner Losh 2022-01-01 1:11 ` [TUHS] roff(7) Phil Budne 2022-01-01 1:17 ` Chris Torek 2022-01-01 3:06 ` Larry McVoy 2022-01-01 3:34 ` George Michaelson 2022-01-05 21:15 ` Tony Finch
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