From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4201 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2021 23:08:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Dec 2021 23:08:37 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9E2A09D04C; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:08:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6A29CF51; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:08:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="we7MBAS3"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CB0499CF51; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:08:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f182.google.com (mail-lj1-f182.google.com [209.85.208.182]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53C809CF06 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:08:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f182.google.com with SMTP id q8so30943846ljp.9 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:08:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fZXL75oqlEJ9S5gw65C2TT6NlEcH72rF7BvFPJGoBcE=; b=we7MBAS30rgrKUxPEjqWxfKk/29wAGYvWlZah1DhfS/RKnBufGXIAMq1W1+mdaDEnP VLGO97Y+i1K/lvU/whvdRn4zH8R3m4N6V9DRiSErin3t0OMWAU4IqE0xbMYwOnSgBs2B /g5M8DoTI7RBxqiQGSWoKAttD3TgNmWpACmruvLW5TfSgWMPnY151Pxa0xuE6KkeDjz/ W9yNpc2Fn7aloPy2plsQu00HvMvqheu7qeAse2Mmb3TCUmRMFEb3pTPyTfcxpMk0gTOu lRHB9L0V2/lKb1N/uTRRgZkgvoifC2OoefXi2qXpt0BjP/p4jJpsH6VJYw/BRHbg3iZs p3zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fZXL75oqlEJ9S5gw65C2TT6NlEcH72rF7BvFPJGoBcE=; b=cYQVI8i9JtGEKxJDNV1GfINuFNrl9cyD8LlfMgjAV967N3UWDdDzcAnnAbaB9hXF1l 4GqdEJ+J3b7VRXJkshUjzLD29vEdsZObAJ5KyGK7KgWFTQSqwN8LrxCuxH7+oDjNy20Y IqMm1HXKHjVgLiHZHnPpyr7bPazz2cPGsPkqC5dk7MBEnu6ctv6j3fbEUjkvIQ6L79v7 bG0r2zbBuaDCzyZV2npL9beVWmGGxCzE48AXaKMww+JnpGRc4PZ+jNzax9aRGys0Csvt U8EsN7ZeENXiyfsMParngD2y+e79/xr+SeV2p/OQs0EfBQ/GyGcqZk5+/hFUo7T6WQ65 IavQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533YegbVWk3RrblvZghKZFg9phIt8S2vKQKZONpmwBHb5zWR/JGv PHGpgxzCgKcjxy8j64nUFk5rXu7k60G/wZt+dSI/XA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVuJ7NwPmNN59vz15K/uHC0K9OxzJbOvVCvIuHkz12v45mKARdH33AE+qjjuy8mgQe8DZuf6AJHxA2uhyy8aw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:95cd:: with SMTP id y13mr21505140ljh.342.1640992082354; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:08:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 09:07:49 +1000 Message-ID: To: Douglas McIlroy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025fbca05d4793e5d" Subject: Re: [TUHS] roff(7) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000025fbca05d4793e5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In 79-82 Runoff got me my undergraduate texts formatted on a dec10. Moving to work post degree on Unix and vms systems (my memory is that for some reason VMS didn't have runoff) I had the Normalised "oh this must be the same" hitting roff/nroff and got really confused by having both ms and me macros. Nobody seemed to be able to explain to me why you wanted both (the mysteries and distinctions of v vs BSD were completely lost to me at this early stage). But macros aside, anyone who had used runoff had a massively simpler path into roff than TeX. My future was set. The phd students at Leeds looked down their noses at me for using cryptic .2 letter inline magic. They were the high priests of things, I was just a computer operator. Watching them spend weeks and weeks wrangling a one em offset problem stopping perfection in print was.. entertaining. Then we somehow got ditroff at Leeds uni. That was really weird, because it was obviously "better" but again nobody could explain why the di- bit magically appeared. (We had a Benson- Varian slimey paper printer at some fantastical dpi like 120 or 150 which turned up at the same time.) wasn't this just Troff? Oh God, was it really called t/roff not troff... The entire production path to lpr had some driver logic to put "--" cut marks on the continuous paper so you knew where to guillotine from the roll, but unfortunately was wired to US legal paper sizes not A4 (presumably some macro definitions file would have fixed this) I still have a poem from the British computer society about the birth of the icl 2900 typeset in olde English, centred. That Benson-Varian must have used damn good printing because it's still readable 40 years later when parking tickets (similar print process?) Fade out in a day. It was also around the time that "tbl" had what we all thought was a bug, drawing the horizontal boxlines off by one. Nobody at the time understood this was to counteract a specific electromechanical printer issue inside AT&T. Since it was coming in BSD Unix I can imagine back inside Berkeley people binning our complaints. If you don't remember which 1200bpi tape the software came from, don't just complain at random... The "pic" tool had also just hit, and it obviously didn't share those line offset problems which made us all very suspicious: "ITS THE SAME PEOPLES CODE" we shouted at each other (it wasnt) ... G --00000000000025fbca05d4793e5d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In 79-82 Runoff got me my undergraduate texts formatted o= n a dec10.

Moving to work post= degree on Unix and vms systems (my memory is that for some reason VMS didn= 't have runoff) I had the Normalised "oh this must be the same&quo= t; hitting roff/nroff and got really confused by having both ms and me macr= os.=C2=A0

Nobody seemed = to be able to explain to me why you wanted both (the mysteries and distinct= ions of v<X> vs BSD were completely lost to me at this early stage). = But macros aside, anyone who had used runoff had a massively simpler path i= nto roff than TeX. My future was set. The phd students at Leeds looked down= their noses at me for using cryptic .2 letter inline magic. They were the = high priests of things, I was just a computer operator.=C2=A0 Watching them= spend weeks and weeks wrangling a one em offset problem stopping perfectio= n in print was.. entertaining.=C2=A0
Then we somehow got ditroff at Leeds uni. That was= really weird, because it was obviously "better" but again nobody= could explain why the di- bit magically appeared. (We had a Benson- Varian= slimey paper printer at some fantastical dpi like 120 or 150 which turned = up at the same time.) wasn't this just Troff? Oh God, was it really cal= led t/roff not troff...

= The entire production path to lpr had some driver logic to put "--&quo= t; cut marks on the continuous paper so you knew where to guillotine from t= he=C2=A0 roll, but unfortunately was wired to US legal paper sizes not A4 (= presumably some macro definitions file would have fixed this) I still have = a poem from the British computer society about the birth of the icl 2900 ty= peset in olde English, centred. That Benson-Varian=C2=A0 must have used dam= n good printing because it's still readable 40 years later when parking= tickets (similar print process?) Fade out in a day.

It was also around the time that "tbl&quo= t; had what we all thought was a bug, drawing the horizontal boxlines off b= y one. Nobody at the time understood this was to counteract a specific elec= tromechanical printer issue inside AT&T.=C2=A0 Since it was coming in B= SD Unix I can imagine back inside Berkeley people binning our complaints. I= f you don't remember which 1200bpi tape the software came from, don'= ;t just complain at random...

The "pic" tool had also just hit, and it obviously didn'= ;t share those line offset problems which made us all very suspicious: &quo= t;ITS THE SAME PEOPLES CODE" we shouted at each other (it wasnt) ...

G
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