From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28926 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 22:57:36 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 22:57:36 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F118B4251B; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:57:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f48.google.com (mail-vs1-f48.google.com [209.85.217.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8722C42503 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:57:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f48.google.com with SMTP id i185so7281864vsc.6 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:57:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=l40QA+FDjGrj5KAkcYRLv2oFmUIoP9HFnKRt2/G7siA=; b=A04PfQYzxU2wMXOjXWGy04ovTe0ffZD1pXf/zKwvaNzgIpzpIcjJEAYzq2zaQWrk7I qYerhJWMOfBtPixIMbUCvfPryHzAsrQTLSvZtgFwJ2se5PbjyZhd1dJHlXevKTI+K3dC vLbsQJtyqPjqpMwDlVPaK4siTltN+rTjBgIOCX6EOoNlM7EvAbfWISHzcFZcQx19+S8o rVMHOGODEd93Kdj0T8+ESlusLYkU0TkjA6x2/T9Jenlv98zijr7p9VsZfnWAVi++hjBN 1qFkcv9OWvbr1yohC23BEhPXWFKfum6L7sF63fDZIAIf4XSJyMCPpqfP6Z184WaU34c4 BvHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=l40QA+FDjGrj5KAkcYRLv2oFmUIoP9HFnKRt2/G7siA=; b=d4779w1XGG+klq4UESXJNzlqnzyqEedYBY/Q/ovyKOcPd39XWQ66dnnJQIpIa8alrA aT1fC/KLPQK6kEKQKgyHh2BQKN96WYFg00hdn8vkU6SDTr55UIQ2KeWdUlmwqnSXB0BQ RBOkaBujaeazAru8g9N8dzbUHyc5Z+H6rEWqAGPSCDkfM7ktdd9fpw1hZeotmAGZ1dBg EkztHkLjRKIs9HMvLOBfFVVR274KjGFn+0Nb1R4/77qKYuzp8PiCgk+I7qqBE+qL1vTQ jHh6Fs8lu601bzXYf3lzxNnTry+iXp1eFHmi58gzZGp33bStmUK28nRVYzIqIZg+3xY+ n9pA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqIFmmKivLLvz11nBckAE/wEJP+s4Pfixj9fwAVC0n1/9PTq4fE 7+qvFG3RIhDuV6AixLQe5OjtjaFZ5TSXvwxX6T60oEi7pdw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXubJsyKknKm8x+qFte2W0i4RGjulVBgrPpVJaM7Uq53GY5Qo2hqrZ/bZzIBITpzmPhIIloDYQe+07xfMlVGZK0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fd8b:0:b0:3d0:93b7:fab7 with SMTP id k11-20020a67fd8b000000b003d093b7fab7mr2289051vsq.56.1674255387636; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:56:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 09:56:16 +1100 Message-ID: To: ron minnich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a4ba8c05f2b9f595" Message-ID-Hash: VB2U2LYZOSMP2LLR2KUQE6RUPSITF73F X-Message-ID-Hash: VB2U2LYZOSMP2LLR2KUQE6RUPSITF73F X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: FD 2 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000a4ba8c05f2b9f595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I will let others respond with specifics, but that was there in v5 at least. One of the many shocks I had on arrival at Google was that in production, fd2 was pretty much standard output, as all the logging went there. And since our machines were still 32-bit CPUs then, it was common to overflow the offset because the logging output was, well, not parsimonious. It felt like I'd entered bizarro world, until I realized that few anywhere really knew how Unix was supposed to be used. And they still don't, and never will. -rob On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 9:46 AM ron minnich wrote: > I am trying to remember when fd 2 (aka stderr) became a thing. I have a > vague memory that it was post-v6 but that may be way off. > > > --000000000000a4ba8c05f2b9f595 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I will let others respond with specifics, but that was there in v= 5 at least.

One of the many shocks I had on arrival at Google was that in = production, fd2 was pretty much standard output, as all the logging went th= ere. And since our machines were still 32-bit CPUs then, it was common to o= verflow the offset because the logging output was, well, not parsimonious. = It felt like I'd entered bizarro world, until I realized that few anywh= ere really knew how Unix was supposed to be used. And they still don't,= and never will.

-rob


On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 9:46 AM ron minnich = <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:=
I am trying to remember when fd 2 (aka stderr) became a thing. I have a v= ague memory=C2=A0that it was post-v6 but that may be way off.=C2=A0

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