From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4451 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2021 21:10:16 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Nov 2021 21:10:16 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5910D9CF4F; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 07:10:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6259CE32; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 07:08:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="F3rK+bDA"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 09F4A94613; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 07:08:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-f177.google.com (mail-pg1-f177.google.com [209.85.215.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E61894586 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 07:08:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-f177.google.com with SMTP id r5so13746763pgi.6 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 13:08:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YQa4ANOiRPd252s0VJzObM7OU8ztH8+f/HrztQcbNpM=; b=F3rK+bDA9ux8w0q1cI/7917/slD4cVLLknwNLuxGq50m2TiwyZFufUr61V5Yz6+1BA iQxzYbGbn+qANbBqieWXoGU6bUHSmNgBTFiashWw7WVfgbnn2sveMRqBOVB5sC+ZECnt gsRFh6lp7Qx697/9XgYbfOTC7eaAL92AfghZ2VZAfiNTyCjTSAkJvgt0x8EfdWj1sVfV QQyIpXWaX3oi7A2X/0YVdib/tXO13P9eC02XHK4aF2dn+qHyPxz9BZU9rUqJoSF9qPhh KMtKF5L6xqUj7Gt3avETMstDen9JxPrM7+c9JAHx9DjXGJK6twMbYRWOMQEMCSD+peYZ LuRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YQa4ANOiRPd252s0VJzObM7OU8ztH8+f/HrztQcbNpM=; b=f6JqrhN2VM0kZFogbgc77ItqidG9CxvT1h4tOn8VJmbFSRHfOVz3kWF+TjiJx0rcFP HYjTLc0jbmFWikJOjDQ5zRsE5uIQGBi1zA7hx8B6T/5E/G3CMPQjrg1wjNouYUZLhD4W 6iQKMGBzCwFO6lPebXiIQtSIJCMFBoptBeFE1qt/OkwySzHJpxYC0b7JgCirBXswsPa/ 2w2Hajts2BCvLQI2OV5iutWSKQgg431jYsV24+Qr5IZztskrHzekx0u7INl8xRsW5HBC 1nYVZ44y6AkYITJWyj9WA12B5EuMOtxjufFNQj6qhkd8gpG0dwf6xnNrfPqBEmbHvXFR Z6wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5300OEhKyDRBzQmg3r9iag7eFkdZkw3rrB7cIF0jWyB+IjvUlnV8 xxMv/vVx4ZdcmqKqi03xIWFsgykn8lV1Q/L1zks= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwjyHtkO3GC+TfTBbi0cSPCuBaUazzL1dTAukYdt2rY2H+uOMLu5lz26tAoncBW7QBVsHdROm4aIr9BFZKJKHM= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9438:0:b0:4a2:c941:9ac4 with SMTP id y24-20020aa79438000000b004a2c9419ac4mr34776883pfo.12.1638133688900; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202111282026.1ASKQ5X41437843@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: <202111282026.1ASKQ5X41437843@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Rob Pike Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:07:57 +1100 Message-ID: To: Jon Steinhart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A New History of Modern Computing - my thoughts X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Eugene Miya Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Is there a symbiosis between C and the PDP-11 instruction set? The machine was vital to C and Unix's success, but primarily due to the availability of a department-sized machine. Was the instruction set a significant component? Most Unix programmers wrote little to no assembly, although perhaps more read what came out of the compiler. But did it matter? Auto-increment and -decrement are often cited in this story, but they are not that important, really, and were around well before the PDP-11 made its appearance. I'm curious to hear arguments on either side. -rob On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 7:29 AM Jon Steinhart wrote: > > Eugene Miya visited by last week and accidentally left his copy of the > book here so I decided to read it before he came back to pick it up. > > My overall impression is that while it contained a lot of information, > it wasn't presented in a manner that I found interesting. I don't know > the intended target audience, but it's not me. > > A good part of it is that my interest is in the evolution of technology. > I think that a more accurate title for the book would be "A New History > of the Business of Modern Computing". The book was thorough in covering > the number of each type of machine sold and how much money was made, but > that's only of passing interest to me. Were it me I would have just > summarized all that in a table and used the space to tell some engaging > anecdotes. > > There were a number of things that I felt the book glossed over or missed > completely. > > One is that I didn't think that they gave sufficient credit to the symbiosis > between C and the PDP-11 instruction set and the degree to which the PDP-11 > was enormously influential. > > Another is that I felt that the book didn't give computer graphics adequate > treatment. I realize that it was primarily in the workstation market segment > which was not as large as some of the other segments, but in my opinion the > development of the technology was hugely important as it eventually became > commodified and highly profitable. > > Probably due to my personal involvement I felt that the book missed some > important steps along the path toward open source. In particular, it used > the IPO of Red Hat as the seminal moment while not even mentioning the role > of Cygnus. My opinion is that Cygnus was a huge icebreaker in the adoption > of open source by the business world, and that the Red Hat IPO was just the > culmination. > > I also didn't feel that there was any message or takeaways for readers. I > didn't get any "based on all this I should go and do that" sort of feeling. > > If the purpose of the book was to present a dry history then it pretty much > did it's job. Obviously the authors had to pick and choose what to write > about and I would have made some different choices. But, not my book. > > Jon