From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12656 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2022 20:10:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Oct 2022 20:10:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C20640F10; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 06:09:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f43.google.com (mail-vs1-f43.google.com [209.85.217.43]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AF9F40F0E for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 06:09:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 3so15476979vsh.5 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:09:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F6Nn3TjU4OuUEIRkT71Zh/z+Rm5qwhf8hOyBIItNQsM=; b=pRSY4pSqa8SP0vGFsrHYbMmQX9uqAMCgPoFpF3O7TN2+8p/BMa3TqtwnBxxMbGRNth gLgvYh4Mf5Tyu+oXoWFoNLhlodxhTgomyBTF39S6MDkbEbfS+y9aNzBLloE+QC9QBcoh VxFJEWioz2ChfWFGhNVJ7pNhIUPsZlRX3jIbYmYbrwrPBVqXke7bmXDgxOoVkgW9GenB HlxORqYzVTVyxil94TdmS6aHoig+aum65t0xXaDc/siUAj5dtQBKOrPwVKIkkA1TZWnh g+ZIB85gFayqi6zDrVljRAPMFgpbXzpA2/EnkAka0PbJhAM2/i2O+wsUopk0krzmjfAn TJNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=F6Nn3TjU4OuUEIRkT71Zh/z+Rm5qwhf8hOyBIItNQsM=; b=fvzxhTxqvIILarWe5LsfegWmaD6foKbkhcVFqGYwiL2q8YasU3WKANJlVFgkzKSugN AAUvd7JE+nSKOKDcNsnvQV8LQh4rCOFaVC67cODgpjhf0CBMdkM4ZcnkbOvBft2sxI15 hSzGdAvRK/FksSQGKdRLO4L7hMTMs2ZGR57KTNuE8E671BphzgBh0buQf972Nlq3fUnt vhAwhxs80xTlZ28tzklOwArDkJQEckSgLNQMKB+pqmdZWdbrm///Z2vH3dY6IxNm2XLC 4hF+qcJGtKkGZfqSsDuhRrjN409uyZ0Nn61lsnG1Yrf9eMRlsn3kGDhTGHb5T20xwdFe Riyg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1eGGtynaeZUMGOAGW28AfG150qY7yVN1k1mbpb4wJJ713Z7qiX cpHfZw5c5mqpbD1Qwh4UERnqDGAJv7nTvhA8cAEnMurYzQs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7qHrNkiAEHLXKIMlF07NlWyhZI098CnyJSPqWFd59xPrjSwl+mVPy6g8WLDEJOumYsQvAspvSQ80oTMoY5h6Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:89:b0:3a7:8111:1195 with SMTP id t9-20020a056102008900b003a781111195mr6901519vsp.8.1665518926163; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:08:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <992562BA-E21F-4542-A50B-6CFE8F7ACE86@planet.nl> <20221011134842.GA11780@mcvoy.com> <20221011195447.GI11780@mcvoy.com> <8583490b-c7cc-4633-b506-2f16335fd3e2@home.arpa> In-Reply-To: <8583490b-c7cc-4633-b506-2f16335fd3e2@home.arpa> From: Rob Pike Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 07:08:35 +1100 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Michael_Kj=C3=B6rling?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f5f2b705eac7d732" Message-ID-Hash: 33FZWXZT22MBSABBXUKEESH2DTP35LJ2 X-Message-ID-Hash: 33FZWXZT22MBSABBXUKEESH2DTP35LJ2 X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Re.: Princeton's "Unix: An Oral History": who was in the team in "The Attic"? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000f5f2b705eac7d732 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it is (used to be?) a common pattern. Tom Cargill took a year off from Bell Labs Research to work in development. He joined a group where every subsystem's code was printed in a separate binder and stored on a shelf in each office. Tom discovered that one of those subsystems was almost completely redundant, as most its services were implemented elsewhere. So he spent a few months making it completely redundant. He deleted 15,000 lines of code. When he was done, he removed an entire binder from everybody's shelf. His coworkers loved it. During his performance review, he learned that management had a metric for productivity: lines of code. Tom had negative productivity. In fact, because he was so successful, his entire group had negative productivity. He returned to Research with his tail between his legs. -rob On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 7:03 AM Michael Kj=C3=B6rling wrote: > On 11 Oct 2022 12:54 -0700, from lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy): > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 03:43:19PM -0400, Marc Donner wrote: > >> So, come annual review time he gets the most negative possible score. > >> Why? Because he produced -480K lines of code. > > > > Whoever wrote that review should have been fired. Absolutely no clue. > > Isn't it relatively well established, though, that IBM culture at > least for a very long time put heavy emphasis on counting lines of > source code, and that more SLOC was considered to be better? > > I definitely recall it being mentioned in _Triumph of the nerds_ as a > major issue between IBM and Microsoft during development of OS/2. > > -- > Michael Kj=C3=B6rling > https://michael.kjorling.se > =E2=80=9CRemember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a d= og?=E2=80=9D > > --000000000000f5f2b705eac7d732 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think it is (used to be?) a common pattern.

Tom Cargill took = a year off from Bell Labs Research to work in development. He joined a grou= p where every subsystem's code was printed in a separate binder and sto= red on a shelf in each office. Tom discovered that one of those subsystems = was almost completely redundant, as most its services were implemented else= where. So he spent a few months making it completely redundant. He deleted = 15,000 lines of code. When he was done, he removed an entire binder from ev= erybody's shelf. His coworkers loved it.

During his performance = review, he learned that management had a metric for productivity: lines of = code. Tom had negative productivity. In fact, because he was so successful,= his entire group had negative productivity. He returned to Research with h= is tail between his legs.

-rob


On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 7:03 AM= Michael Kj=C3=B6rling <e5655f= 30a07f@ewoof.net> wrote:
On 11 Oct 2022 12:54 -0700, from lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy):
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 03:43:19PM -0400, Marc Donner wrote:
>> So, come annual review time he gets the most negative possible sco= re.
>> Why?=C2=A0 Because he produced -480K lines of code.
>
> Whoever wrote that review should have been fired.=C2=A0 Absolutely no = clue.

Isn't it relatively well established, though, that IBM culture at
least for a very long time put heavy emphasis on counting lines of
source code, and that more SLOC was considered to be better?

I definitely recall it being mentioned in _Triumph of the nerds_ as a
major issue between IBM and Microsoft during development of OS/2.

--
Michael Kj=C3=B6rling
=C2=A0https://michael.kjorling.se
=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CRemember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were = a dog?=E2=80=9D

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