From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21284 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2023 21:34:35 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Dec 2023 21:34:35 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22DA543E92; Wed, 20 Dec 2023 07:34:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92d.google.com (mail-ua1-x92d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3718943E7D for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2023 07:34:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92d.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7cb00cc0b5fso1170598241.2 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 13:34:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1703021664; x=1703626464; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hkfzKR1y9GWAnK7nYq4/7UL55tvlqpb/51Deasv9M3A=; b=YnYjgz+YeDvnZBI3hagDeNj0GLriwUoHTmsGA3Y9j1gxSO5BF3lxmsiZiVA2CtEvZG 0RZgPRGSILXG1ucMIBQuz7WDvgMg8WukpoDtA5YESjXDDHzqHwZMkOMdEzccspMHJIRM 320C9j7wDXRtI4MhTWDEXHpmkcSVCQTH3kXIgC21Sbe3XmhSwtvkDEoFFKGZSji2jjZ0 gVT6iRqp/B3+vLzRLwP4UuRvEXQwfafiALovOroLh7TFXaE1r5HvBUO1jnNfLI81KfuA wDuxCaSy8a7R/z1zr7bIcp7WuIrN48YBXN6Ce0vTXv8mrOo3RijNGTcaQjIUqk5VBc5Q wq5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1703021664; x=1703626464; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=hkfzKR1y9GWAnK7nYq4/7UL55tvlqpb/51Deasv9M3A=; b=JfnJS4RltqVrwgKa8MA+7feyIm2Q72OvMzQA5Jna3XOgYZIt5TdjsE6a1IfuEV2tRP X10uIv8kb/3zKrIOY99uvm+pKBdifda6SW2mIotOGg9W7a/uNxmbhEwaeqsTzPSdjVUm Tk6Ye5wZ+aX8Un+5BpqlCCgOcMFKq3tdDP9cz3XB7auzpbQ/epI+H8bAOHf0jFi78n74 z+P6K1aN689uJlqePwddzzff7nuNe13OnTFZfThmG10j3M7K2MQU9GOEdaXaIQ6xcdy/ iQ5IBaMO3yLH9N+KhimXSdGeTJTU4sLQV5Ucq/7wUsYcVsWXGXImDD6qmG6dASp4KBWT qqnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyUJ7ct9jeJ+/ETXgJu6zzPJAl5QGUtijXrLvG793py069n9vY7 8QLjtaCxXjrtGRSH74sH2pHeNJMOtX+mMd9tNKA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHoaG8M7o9zqWsG3IKYd6P/L8t1NxAM4fucLZG3T2znPnUxvUkDvnOK/qgVzH3frb/xcGjsL2ddgl5T9iFipUI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:4a11:b0:4b6:d9ba:8b24 with SMTP id ez17-20020a0561224a1100b004b6d9ba8b24mr2406140vkb.21.1703021663892; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 13:34:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93ef58b9-b058-4463-b0e6-d2f2f2bf5a55@loomcom.com> <76f6ae7e-20e1-41fa-9fe4-cc22015411bf@mhorton.net> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2023 08:34:12 +1100 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000523b54060ce3a162" Message-ID-Hash: UBONLTPWFO4GZQ3T2VKVIRPHAE3HF7LM X-Message-ID-Hash: UBONLTPWFO4GZQ3T2VKVIRPHAE3HF7LM X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Tom Lyon , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Compatibility question List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000523b54060ce3a162 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The night operator for the High Speed Job Stream at the University of Toronto would nap on top of the 1401. He would be woken by the lid lifting him up when the printer ran out of paper, an effective alarm clock set to the computer's cycle. -rob On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 7:34=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole wrote: > Tom smiled while reading that man page: "It is assumed that the TN print > train is being used." > I have to wonder how many younger programmers know what a print train is, > much less what it looked like (or how heavy they were when you > changed them). Also, with the loss of the use of real lineprinters, you > have to wonder if those same folks understand why the asa(1) program that > POSIX.2 requires is there (although IIRC later *.2 revisions moved it to > the "FORTRAN Runtime Utilities" as an option POSX2_FORT_RUN - but we had > it there in the original draft). > > Paul -- you left out the other "feature" -- the noise, which was still > deafening even with a model N1 and its cover. > > I equate four sounds to my early computing days: the ASR33 printing, a > 1403 printing, a 1402 reading card, and finally, the constant fan noise i= n > the machine room, plus the smell of light machine oil [definitely in a > terminal room of ASR33s]. > =E1=90=A7 > =E1=90=A7 > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:07=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon wrote= : > >> Yes, Amdahl UTS supported the 1403 from earliest days. >> There even seem to be some mods to 'tbl' to support it. >> >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Paul Winalski >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/18/23, Dave Horsfall wrote: >>> > On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, Paul Winalski wrote: >>> > >>> >> The 132-character screen width was for displaying files originally >>> >> formatted to be printed on a line printer. Compiler listings and >>> linker >>> >> maps, for example. >>> > >>> > Such as the mighty 1403 :-) >>> > >>> > Hint: never leave your cup of coffee on top of it, as the lid will op= en >>> > automatically when it runs out of paper... >>> >>> The 1403 was the best line printer ever made. It was originally the >>> printer for the IBM 1400 second-generation (discrete transistor-based) >>> computer. It continued to be the line printer for S/360. The deluxe >>> model, the IBM 1403 N1, had a power cover that could be operated under >>> computer control. The OS/360 operating system would raise the >>> printer's cover if an error condition occurred, such as out of paper >>> or a paper jam. This was a very useful feature in large data centers >>> where there were several line printers, to indicate which printer had >>> a problem. >>> >>> The cover of a 1403 N1 also provided a convenient and attractive flat >>> surface on which to place things. But a dangerous one. Many a card >>> deck magtape reel, coffee cup, or pizza box has been unceremoniously >>> dumped on the floor. >>> >>> When our shop upgraded from a S/360 model 25 to a S/370 model 125, our >>> 1403 was replaced by a 3203 line printer. It was not as good as the >>> 1401 had been. >>> >>> There was a business in Massachusetts in the 1980s that bought and >>> sold old IBM computer gear. A company asked them for a quote on their >>> IBM 1400 system (1401 processor, 1402 card read/punch, 1403 printer). >>> They were offered $18,000 for the whole system, or $15,000 for the >>> 1403 printer alone. That's how valued those printers were. >>> >>> To bring this closer on-topic, was there Unix support for the IBM 1403? >>> >>> -Paul W. >>> >> --000000000000523b54060ce3a162 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The night operator for the High Speed Job Stream at the Universit= y of Toronto would nap on top of the 1401. He would be woken by the lid lif= ting him up when the printer ran out of paper, an effective alarm clock set= to the computer's cycle.

-rob


On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 7:34=E2= =80=AFAM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com&g= t; wrote:
Tom smiled while reading=C2=A0t= hat man page: &quo= t;It is assumed that the TN print train is being used."
I have to wonder how many younger programmers know what a print train is= , much less what it looked like=C2=A0(or how heavy they were when you chang= ed=C2=A0them).=C2=A0 Also, with the loss of the use of real lineprinters, y= ou have to wonder if those same folks understand why the asa(1) program that POSIX.2 requires is there (although IIRC= later *.2 revisions moved it to the "FORTRAN Runtime Utilities" = as an option POSX2_FORT_R= UN - but we had i= t there in the original draft).

Paul= -- you left out the other "feature" -- the noise, which was stil= l deafening even with a model N1 and its cover.=C2=A0=C2=A0
I equate four sounds to my early computing days: th= e ASR33 printing, a 1403 printing, a 1402 reading card, and finally, the co= nstant fan noise in the machine room, plus the smell of light machine oil [= definitely in a terminal room of ASR33s].
3D""=E1=90=A7
=E1=90=A7

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:07=E2=80= =AFPM Tom Lyon <pu= gs78@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, Amdahl UTS supported the 1403 from earl= iest days.
There even seem to be some mods to 'tbl' to support = it.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.c= om> wrote:
dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, Paul Winalski wrote:
>
>> The 132-character screen width was for displaying files originally=
>> formatted to be printed on a line printer.=C2=A0 Compiler listings= and linker
>> maps, for example.
>
> Such as the mighty 1403 :-)
>
> Hint: never leave your cup of coffee on top of it, as the lid will ope= n
> automatically when it runs out of paper...

The 1403 was the best line printer ever made.=C2=A0 It was originally the printer for the IBM 1400 second-generation (discrete transistor-based)
computer.=C2=A0 It continued to be the line printer for S/360.=C2=A0 The de= luxe
model, the IBM 1403 N1, had a power cover that could be operated under
computer control.=C2=A0 The OS/360 operating system would raise the
printer's cover if an error condition occurred, such as out of paper or a paper jam.=C2=A0 This was a very useful feature in large data centers<= br> where there were several line printers, to indicate which printer had
a problem.

The cover of a 1403 N1 also provided a convenient and attractive flat
surface on which to place things.=C2=A0 But a dangerous one.=C2=A0 Many a c= ard
deck magtape reel, coffee cup, or pizza box has been unceremoniously
dumped on the floor.

When our shop upgraded from a S/360 model 25 to a S/370 model 125, our
1403 was replaced by a 3203 line printer.=C2=A0 It was not as good as the 1401 had been.

There was a business in Massachusetts in the 1980s that bought and
sold old IBM computer gear.=C2=A0 A company asked them for a quote on their=
IBM 1400 system (1401 processor, 1402 card read/punch, 1403 printer).
They were offered $18,000 for the whole system, or $15,000 for the
1403 printer alone.=C2=A0 That's how valued those printers were.

To bring this closer on-topic, was there Unix support for the IBM 1403?

-Paul W.
--000000000000523b54060ce3a162--