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* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
@ 2020-01-09 21:53 Norman Wilson
  2020-01-09 21:55 ` Richard Salz
  2020-01-09 22:01 ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2020-01-09 21:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Jon Steinhart:

  One amusing thing that Steve told me which I think I can share is why the
  symmetry of case-esac, if-fi was broken with with do-done; it was because
  the od command existed so do-od wouldn't work!

=====

As I heard the story in the UNIX room decades ago (and at least five
years after the event), Steve tried and tried to convince Ken to
rename od so that he could have the symmetry he wanted.  Ken was
unmoved.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-09 21:53 [TUHS] screen editors and beyond Norman Wilson
@ 2020-01-09 21:55 ` Richard Salz
  2020-01-09 22:01 ` Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2020-01-09 21:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Norman Wilson; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society


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At first I wanted to know why having an "od" command interfered with the
shell's source code of #define, but then I realized y-all meant the control
structures for scripting :)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-09 21:53 [TUHS] screen editors and beyond Norman Wilson
  2020-01-09 21:55 ` Richard Salz
@ 2020-01-09 22:01 ` Clem Cole
  2020-01-10  1:52   ` Rob Pike
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2020-01-09 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Norman Wilson; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society


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On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 4:54 PM Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> wrote:

> As I heard the story in the UNIX room decades ago (and at least five
> years after the event), Steve tried and tried to convince Ken to
> rename od so that he could have the symmetry he wanted.  Ken was
> unmoved.


I admit I'm not sure which solution is 'least astonishing.'  Just think if
DEC had used hex for years, instead of octal ;-)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-09 22:01 ` Clem Cole
@ 2020-01-10  1:52   ` Rob Pike
  2020-01-10 12:26     ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-01-10  1:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society


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I wrote xd for a reason.

-rob

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-10  1:52   ` Rob Pike
@ 2020-01-10 12:26     ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
  2020-01-10 13:15       ` Mark van Atten
  2020-01-10 20:32       ` Rob Pike
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Luke Nesbit @ 2020-01-10 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike, Clem Cole, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On 10/01/2020 01:52, Rob Pike wrote:
> I wrote xd for a reason.

What is xd?  Please could you send a link to it?  Thank you!!

Andrew
-- 
OpenPGP key: EB28 0338 28B7 19DA DAB0  B193 D21D 996E 883B E5B9

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-10 12:26     ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
@ 2020-01-10 13:15       ` Mark van Atten
  2020-01-10 20:32       ` Rob Pike
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mark van Atten @ 2020-01-10 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Luke Nesbit; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 13:27, Andrew Luke Nesbit
<ullbeking@andrewnesbit.org> wrote:
>
> On 10/01/2020 01:52, Rob Pike wrote:
> > I wrote xd for a reason.
>
> What is xd?  Please could you send a link to it?  Thank you!!

I'm obviously not Rob Pike, but here is a link to the man page of (the
plan9port incarnation of) xd:
https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man1/xd.html

Mark.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-10 12:26     ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
  2020-01-10 13:15       ` Mark van Atten
@ 2020-01-10 20:32       ` Rob Pike
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-01-10 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Luke Nesbit; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society


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http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/xd

There's a copy of the source in plan9port.

-rob


On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 11:26 PM Andrew Luke Nesbit <
ullbeking@andrewnesbit.org> wrote:

> On 10/01/2020 01:52, Rob Pike wrote:
> > I wrote xd for a reason.
>
> What is xd?  Please could you send a link to it?  Thank you!!
>
> Andrew
> --
> OpenPGP key: EB28 0338 28B7 19DA DAB0  B193 D21D 996E 883B E5B9
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond
  2020-01-09 17:30                       ` Warner Losh
@ 2020-01-09 17:45                         ` Jon Steinhart
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jon Steinhart @ 2020-01-09 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Warner Losh writes:
>
> I chose emacs because of muscle memory (Both the VAX and TOPS-20 machines
> at school had emacs as the default editor) and also because it lets me
> program better. I didn't let the fact it accomplished that by trying to be
> an OS or LISP-M or whatever get in the way of using the best tool for the
> job. In the 90s this meant that I had to be careful about the machines I
> used it on. These days, it just doesn't matter. Mostly, though, it was
> finger muscle memory :)
>
> Warner

That's a great reason.  I never did any bodybuilding with emacs so I have
different muscle memory.

There is another reason why I stayed away from emacs which is that I was
running projects at the time - I had graduated from being an individual
contributor.  The multiple versions of emacs got in the way.  We had too
many instances where one person would ask another person for help or to
review something, but people using different tools interfered with the
ability of people to walk over to another terminal and get stuff done.

Because of this, I made and enforced a rule that said that one could only 
use shell aliases if they didn't redefine any existing commands.  It was
important for people to be able to work together.  Things were getting
so flexible that it was as if everybody had their own custom power outlets at
their desks preventing any other group member from coming over and plugging
something in.

Taking this in a different direction, one of the other rules that I enforced
was "don't redefine the programming language."  This is in my mind right now
as I try to navigate the linux kernel.  Someone obviously didn't like C and
made a bunch of overly complicated constructs via macros to change it to
something else generating bad code in the process.  It reminded me of the
first time that I ran across this, which was the Bourne shell in C redefined
as Algol.  I recently asked Steve about why he did this and he did give me
an answer which he said I couldn't share until he refined it.  He probably
forgot over the holidays but since I think he's on this list maybe he'll
weigh in.

One amusing thing that Steve told me which I think I can share is why the
symmetry of case-esac, if-fi was broken with with do-done; it was because
the od command existed so do-od wouldn't work!

Jon

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

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Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-01-09 21:53 [TUHS] screen editors and beyond Norman Wilson
2020-01-09 21:55 ` Richard Salz
2020-01-09 22:01 ` Clem Cole
2020-01-10  1:52   ` Rob Pike
2020-01-10 12:26     ` Andrew Luke Nesbit
2020-01-10 13:15       ` Mark van Atten
2020-01-10 20:32       ` Rob Pike
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-01-08  9:46 [TUHS] screen editors Rudi Blom
2020-01-08 14:15 ` Chet Ramey
2020-01-08 23:21   ` Dave Horsfall
2020-01-09  0:08     ` Warner Losh
2020-01-09  1:28       ` Larry McVoy
2020-01-09  1:40         ` Bakul Shah
2020-01-09  2:04           ` Clem Cole
2020-01-09  2:07             ` Larry McVoy
2020-01-09  2:12               ` Clem Cole
2020-01-09  4:23                 ` Jon Steinhart
2020-01-09 15:54                   ` Clem Cole
2020-01-09 17:21                     ` Jon Steinhart
2020-01-09 17:30                       ` Warner Losh
2020-01-09 17:45                         ` [TUHS] screen editors and beyond Jon Steinhart

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