From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7927 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2021 21:41:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Nov 2021 21:41:19 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9599C9CA5C; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:41:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC049CA36; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:39:50 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="UU+7pa84"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 175759CA36; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:39:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-f176.google.com (mail-pg1-f176.google.com [209.85.215.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C3AF9C2A1 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2021 07:39:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-f176.google.com with SMTP id g28so6662093pgg.3 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:39:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=97MswsYh7BI/HqZBCTAFG8OhjpOXgZTxtAYKauo922k=; b=UU+7pa84uD+8jjIJf66RqHCbm+X1UMho+mnNn/rf6DrvBTXXFvoIbfRiUaocyECs/n jsjm1y61i09FSqdoKRhc4NqAbtSiUwYlHaj7IvM5jmu2IPZwSnfGYeCoIlUnaKeMgVSt UwRC7FaxxjYqCmstz8dcTBEYUt00fbuLzs7c87+FPUyYUWhIhsyyBNVPx28ZprlWnIBm /4RohQuyF9Jhn94pP0ExrWoCqZ01zPXavfWyO9wpGdHhVmhS4VtXgYREZq3B5mO5xNWd 0m35rQVPr3mhMJhisFrMyewIyo7w7wwVLMVauIIhV2Wy4PcYbXM/ALcrLBsvLn3Y6BnH /UdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=97MswsYh7BI/HqZBCTAFG8OhjpOXgZTxtAYKauo922k=; b=rhaqn1MDncgqPsDcQHOOHrKyk7Y8SHroNqQo1+HGUKrObqB4u7isFjptz7lpeGklN+ Qe0kpxU0PU9vo4i8aPxW+MnBHpkfgOR6XmgSz5Ez7NSBGv6zswNwrsOC9KkFjP0cXjTa pAJ+310cG0t+H/Jxu0mniv4yxj6OEdweg3VWK4ideCfAHFJBnTlC36yK0hGwGi+Vpdd0 D20uTtLf2eY0vSSg+OggdqiQ9rQiRhlsGP2aCjhNNcKTH/u0li+5Rcrb2X1hmHDpbo1U U8ofhc74PuVntERR48bOM3vOkGDnyIrn50sv0O6jPpPGabvsI8LNK6cmtPjNvl7SwoZJ 9ImA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532JnTOp9vsEZNhUvekdMyHI0p9x/2YO0ezQsczvrAcvvF74KuTK 1NQ1RbCps8F5aYTmCAoAQx4YvS9lSuhP0+qt18XIXbtQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7U4BcaV2CwW0ALmVU34XiP4vmuMboJ6r/OF6/ShBxAaKCuwkZIeYSXUh++C8OH2I+h1ERhaiuwoKI/Orrcik= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9438:0:b0:4a2:c941:9ac4 with SMTP id y24-20020aa79438000000b004a2c9419ac4mr32260636pfo.12.1637271587807; Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:39:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202111161754.1AGHsGsN929905@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <50F3E958-F0A4-4895-B1BC-41A2644A074A@oclsc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 08:39:36 +1100 Message-ID: To: George Michaelson Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] Book Recommendation [ reallly inscrutable languages ] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" In my limited orbit, Ruby eventually displaced Perl for that, but as to the default today, I don't know. -rob On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 8:06 AM George Michaelson wrote: > > Interesting use of the past tense. I like to think this remains in the pa= st tense but I keep walking into sysadmin tasks where its (regrettably ?) p= resent. > > G > > On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, 8:24 am Rob Pike, wrote: >> >> Perl certainly had its detractors, but for a few years there it was the = lingua franca of system administration. >> >> -rob >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:21 AM Dan Cross wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 3:54 PM Warner Losh wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 1:48 PM Dan Stromberg wrot= e: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:35 AM Norman Wilson wro= te: >>>>>> >>>>>> Wasn't Perl created to fill this void? >>>>>> >>>>>> Void? I thought Perl was created to fill a much-needed gap. >>>>> >>>>> There was and is a need for something to sit between Shell and C. Bu= t it needn't be filled by Perl. >>>>> >>>>> The chief problem with Perl, as I see it, is it's like 10 languages s= mashed together. To write it, you only need to know one of the 10. But to= read it, you never know what subset you're going to see until you're deep = in the code. >>>>> >>>>> Perl is the victim of an experiment in exuberant, Opensource design, = where the bar to adding a new feature was troublingly low. >>>>> >>>>> It was undeniably influential. >>>> >>>> >>>> It's what paved the way for python to fill that gap... >>> >>> >>> I feel that Perl, and to a lesser extent Tcl, opened the floodgates for= a number of relatively lightweight "scripting" languages that sat between = C and the shell in terms of their functionality and expressive power. From = that group, the one I liked best was Ruby, but it got hijacked by Rails and= Python swooped in and stole its thunder. >>> >>> - Dan C. >>>