From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13054 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2021 22:19:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Nov 2021 22:19:56 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4DE9494613; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:19:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFECC9CE32; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:17:38 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="Jyz8UNaj"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0023794613; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:17:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com (mail-pf1-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B9C494586 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:17:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id b68so14673070pfg.11 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 14:17:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W337d0wjyIRQAytaILZBQYrWfiC69B3DToSVClnvW4s=; b=Jyz8UNajh7NlJf5RtfUjgrEmvFpYc5xWAb7mOrGnlPX6263aDtWq5pr8KllsAFaunN vT5LWa+Sz6XLSHzbXtdIDoFIsfDLRLxGpSZJau2SRTA31Q1vsAdWQJyxU+F87Eo5Qc5m GMoh5dn6DqPoGTQCcYK027rwg3aqsrgs6yutwLNT1mX8WyQmLkDkfVTXl9EaqhwnpRRL DhyLFxAsPUEUpgaaCclJgeXzvfpjfUu36EykK+uxuuLOzCuSnwUsd58Gr+pdZzldGV+1 oLyLLraJ4oShxeA/ni4CDEnDTqxcAcRZShjrbcEqH4KnBIcY59ZQM48n3TlsuHNN7ADE bCAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W337d0wjyIRQAytaILZBQYrWfiC69B3DToSVClnvW4s=; b=gGTVXv1Xtl10XH//8TjyfraMX/vnNYS7o9sqoVHFnh2xyHS2AU6B0iSXO9hdXF9TOV Uzb9BG04+XofNOtPoh5HmyiskcKmgnr2p18EGjNz6vyfVyYlKk/xEmd/6KJUewd9bD7d CD9lHRqkQrL26rOnKbTXcgNYRbnYsecCBFWaNtgWhaPfK06W7yh5AiacPPV8tI/oaPNE KRye3UBJHTOMZOhmzBaf+6YBOzt0bILPW4qUsGlG6viz9znYQwUo3Qj0N0deUVd6tzS+ emXdPxjbfnhiNwgheSrsmrvZJduG37KGdxRcSqEbv31GMJA7q/z3MguqeU8hctNTQxDS Ig3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LpKoPzM/7xpxReMxYvwtmqQW6yOEXWo22RYRt0NvEfZSeXewr hRkmsvYbUppnFSpibO5f6ohBk8YK2tyzENP8CaE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyWm1cSot52tmEmF7CE1+7dazz9FvJvgrVcrdQQ8F0+C9UH/Bb7CxD1BoYCSaL++p8rEWImTVtk79JR44fDAX8= X-Received: by 2002:a63:34c5:: with SMTP id b188mr32407683pga.64.1638137855889; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 14:17:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202111282026.1ASKQ5X41437843@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202111282115.1ASLFK1Q1438854@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202111282147.1ASLlND41439656@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: <202111282147.1ASLlND41439656@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Rob Pike Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 09:17:24 +1100 Message-ID: To: Jon Steinhart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A New History of Modern Computing - my thoughts X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Eugene Miya Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" It's a just-so story. We have nostalgia for Unix, C, and the PDP-11 and its instruction set, and we combine them all into the story about why it all succeeded. But nostalgia can mislead. I loved the PDP-11 and its instruction set, I loved C, and I loved Unix. Memory has put causation in there that is not altogether true. The PDP-11 as an affordable commercial computer, now _that_ was important. -rob On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 8:50 AM Jon Steinhart wrote: > > Ken Thompson writes: > > > > The PDP-11 had very little the syntax of B expressions. > > All of that was in place in B long before the PDP-11. > > To be honest, the byte addressing of the 11 was a > > significant hindrance. It was the genius of Dennis > > that was able to conquer the 11 as he installed types > > into the language. > > > > So, my opinion, the PDP-11 had no design on the > > type system of C and moreover it was not even helpful. > > OK then. You *would* be the expert.