From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10374 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2021 08:30:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Jan 2021 08:30:38 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D8E329C882; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:30:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E5099C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:30:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="P2dKQkjD"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6F7639C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:30:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f181.google.com (mail-lj1-f181.google.com [209.85.208.181]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0055C9C63D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:29:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f181.google.com with SMTP id v15so12645893ljk.13 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 00:29:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=m7h286O5Gbo/yYiBVPhIZq1/BNV9f27SpN56/8A40vo=; b=P2dKQkjDQ7tWZfoqQqb/NylD1Mj8HboT2pDkZPBm2/fH6O6RJD+VLgiFmx7XD8xRZf yzBRK6x/YZaisnRNVkebP33m82ADNXUSwuTPmeFF985sYMW4RINeDYPNMVZcnDCqEmlz 8VUx1bcYhA2csiiWH7WzQ62ggHGVrt+hz6gZHtkh8OjAlGPhOJYkeNezYS9ZgPDTr4BE 0jR3PJ06xh4Bcbcvod/U+c/qdenEwEKeWSKrj3KOEm9N89OQuCqiUTgmGiAamqHudihR +1LKoiZVcOA4EG5141UviP/hg7VKAroyUqJr8oR8tQl/7Z9ZOzf335F5Rlj4nJyhgyQu 2K3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=m7h286O5Gbo/yYiBVPhIZq1/BNV9f27SpN56/8A40vo=; b=K3p0Rm4AxMkAiESyYJjdiEPm8qWJ8uSWRnt3k5UZbysTWT+LUC22C8iF4bhwWFEj8A jWBDoClbTGlElVkSU1F5M/eO7NH/T/CqGoLrxg3z3NWKQf5tjcdE3Aj12XlLEE/aOErj 65aqU8FHeaD0ENpzwcW869zYbooABhOpYUTnCS19Vz37gjXXTkyRiTUVU2D53pQMFvf5 muBqsMXOf+ZrMR0DLWN2OqTGVbs1ojicy0xoKyTyMsBXrYJNb35U398TGvAmZqRWbISe zIrCq4KYYBh7GZMLZ0tzhagYQHa109geM0m9ISgFpc/4dT0Ow0ghaOfrLAQ1dmOVzFtJ Eedg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5327BIiHJ7Omw1RqQauS+s915PUvv74kJMK8Y6yDKnDO2A84C3gG HDBjgGaLHAGNGUMjz38vw9EtIan+wSk9QodrDMEFXPlh X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJymm5pNuPjk7Qe4RvC4lst0K5Nj95SV3tnKqFZy23OKEyEAKGZ1M34viVtFPmt1pQ6T9FDY6KRt68gHzyXTsqw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b5a8:: with SMTP id f8mr6984534ljn.350.1612081798131; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 00:29:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <316d3fab-cf62-2d2e-f721-f4398acffc06@bitsavers.org> <7wh7mxpp4q.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: <7wh7mxpp4q.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: Rob Pike Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 19:29:46 +1100 Message-ID: To: Lars Brinkhoff Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ed328905ba2e0adb" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000ed328905ba2e0adb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The version of qed Leah refers to is not pure. It was created in the late 1970s by Tom Duff, Hugh Redelmeier, David Tilbrook and myself by hacking the (already hacked) v6 ed we had at the University of Toronto, to restore some of the programmability that had been removed when ed was created, and to have fun. Mostly to have fun. Tom Duff used a real QED (sic) on the GCOS at Waterloo and was a bit conflicted about all this. For me the programmability was fun, and I wrote the tutorial, but what ended up sticking with me was the ability to edit multiple files simultaneously, something no other editor I had available could do. I don't mean switching between files, I mean making things like global substitutions across *.c. I'd start a session by typing qed *.[ch] and go from there. Our qed traveled with me from Caltech to Bell Labs, where I used it to write jim, which I used to write sam, which I used to write Acme. I tried vi when starting jim, but again the one file thing was too much to bear. I also tried emacs, which could in principle handle multiple files but the interface was cumbersome - it was much too hard to open a new file in a subwindow - and without regular expressions I gave up after a day or two. Also with a 2-d screen and a 1-d input device (no mouse), vi and emacs were too remote, like giving directions to someone holding a map without being able to point at the map. Describing where you want to point rather than just pointing. Anyway that was 40 or so years ago, and it's clear from the screens on others' desks at work that my opinion on those matters is not widely shared. I had a lot of fun hacking qed, mostly side-by-side with Tilbrook, who was its biggest fan. He taught me a lot and I loved working with him. -rob On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 6:01 PM Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Al Kossow wrote: > > https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940 > > > > SDS 940 QED > > > > "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT > > nocrew.org). I have no idea where he got them." > > > > Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are > > on bitsavers > > > > The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers as > well. > > I got everything in a zip file from Mark Emmer when I asked him about QED. > --000000000000ed328905ba2e0adb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The version of qed Leah refers to is not pure. It was crea= ted in the late 1970s by Tom Duff, Hugh Redelmeier, David Tilbrook and myse= lf by hacking the (already hacked) v6 ed we had at the University of Toront= o, to restore some of the programmability that had been removed when ed was= created, and to have fun. Mostly to have fun.

Tom Duff = used a real QED (sic) on the GCOS at Waterloo and was a bit conflicted abou= t all this. For me the programmability was fun, and I wrote the tutorial, b= ut what ended up sticking with me was the ability to edit multiple files si= multaneously, something no other editor I had available could do. I don'= ;t mean switching between files, I mean making things like global substitut= ions across *.c. I'd start a session by typing qed *.[ch] and go from t= here.

Our qed traveled with me from Caltech to Bel= l Labs, where I used it to write jim, which I used to write sam, which I us= ed to write Acme. I tried vi when starting jim, but again the one file thin= g was too much to bear. I also tried emacs, which could in principle handle= multiple files but the interface was cumbersome - it was much too hard to = open a new file in a subwindow - and without regular expressions I gave up = after a day or two. Also with a 2-d screen and a 1-d input device (no mouse= ), vi and emacs were too remote, like giving directions to someone holding = a map without being able to point at the map. Describing where you want to = point rather than just pointing.

Anyway that was 4= 0 or so years ago, and it's clear from the screens on others' desks= at work that my opinion on those matters is not widely shared.
<= br>
I had a lot of fun hacking qed, mostly side-by-side with Tilb= rook, who was its biggest fan. He taught me a lot and I loved working with = him.

-rob



On Su= n, Jan 31, 2021 at 6:01 PM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Al Kossow wrote:
> https://github.com/arnoldrobbin= s/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940
>
> SDS 940 QED
>
> "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT
> noc= rew.org). I have no idea where he got them."
>
> Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are<= br> > on bitsavers
>
> The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers a= s well.

I got everything in a zip file from Mark Emmer when I asked him about QED.<= br>
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