From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3e2a2307 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 00:38:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E6ACB9BDB8; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:38:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E978E9BD16; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:37:53 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="gx4RhXZ5"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 52CA29BD16; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:37:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f49.google.com (mail-vs1-f49.google.com [209.85.217.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DCB49BD15 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:37:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f49.google.com with SMTP id v129so408170vsb.11 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 17:37:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BwkI8FHmoYGgPkeLQ5xFHexSOYqzyx+/fjySoli2G9E=; b=gx4RhXZ5vhiRZ7TWhvXJ7EzLqh+x3B7V1zFNku1nlJwTq9gZ2DkMpGCsav4FDdusr3 f+QVqbPWsuto5Y1xcH2Lkxptkg7c7dUVjLWRVSBjpoLZICTAmgpDvbeysaaCiwS91DJx z85tHfToC4L2HdqIp7G3bmShQ0eJe6x1tmeF9jY/6UwaSRqxUGd7hmBeskrPkRmixXbe JwXBDgbVdPN+1xqMgupkof5FrTYu199SFfQ/Yip8SlSEgHsJ2LKWime/rIQBRyRZSQ7G cB3ktVfNtOHBTnXmv8yvqc+6CDb1STlmaXe/U9elJLFG54Gz/B30Hb0Q1DUris6Rxryn SCXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BwkI8FHmoYGgPkeLQ5xFHexSOYqzyx+/fjySoli2G9E=; b=YYtMAq9WY5uHheIxlI5AKu+7C5Nti6XrRc2ecb3mvTU++qLRaEp8LfkuVA8FpeiIoY RYOcm57FttVcaEsYWKMsKZwQpRiK9mfWXg04BvjekpV1Acdns4MqggOzUFU1HxBpMtl3 +5d1P1XKNDcHfYLqx6gq1BQ58Jq7F8rCTX+XUl4Tu8tLz/cdlXpjE29iB68viDL881l2 eXXt326WQlEgEX20kiN+inBNZks48WLOu3ZKibPXOVy4Bdhnv5aeJfvyp/WdITZjap4A KG1J4ZtIsAzfUgbkbXlpgu3l/qGsZKFO4H5tE8XQjzzxUuZGBb5CZoaRwIGPZrPXYpAc uwFw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVLrYVc9HXXEQMOxeGw7gwG7aqcxdgJzVpjcebv6q1Az3RPHxTf E6kl0RFfxoCGpxjSGAwMKMoSTzCsbF0LAn0yb1I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzof1ts8h56xHcrLooaT0q1qKP2wIVW7j22R9XcyyPftyUIJorv/bl9Rk69DbzgMNSSYB1QoSKgZ84GUGFtLzw= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fb8d:: with SMTP id n13mr1046108vsr.46.1561509470139; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 17:37:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1561491205.19116.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:37:39 +1000 Message-ID: To: ron minnich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000047fb27058c2f4106" Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.1c bsd ptrace man entry ("ptrace is unique and arcane") X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000047fb27058c2f4106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Peter Weinberger started and Tom Killian finalized a version of /proc for the eighth edition that is ioctl-driven. It was done in the early 1980s. I don't know where the idea originated. In Plan 9, we (I?) replaced the ioctl interface, which was offensively non-portable. -rob On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:01 AM ron minnich wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 12:34 PM Norman Wilson wrote: > > > > It's interesting that this comment about ptrace was written > > as early as 1980. > > > > Ron Minnich's reference to Plan 9 /proc misses the mark, though. > > your comment about my comment misses the mark; I was not talking about > the origins of /proc. This is probably because I was not clear and > probably because few people realize that the plan 9 process debugging > interface was strings written and read to/from /proc//[various > files], rather than something like ptrace. > > The first time I saw that debug-interface-in-proc in plan 9, it made > me think back to the 4.1c bsd manual ptrace comment, and I wondered if > there was any path that led from this man page entry to the ideas in > the plan 9 methods. > > I actually implemented the plan 9 debug model in linux back around > 2007, but was pretty sure getting it upstream would never happen, so > let it die. > > ron > --00000000000047fb27058c2f4106 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter Weinberger started and Tom Killian finalized a versi= on of /proc for the eighth edition that is ioctl-driven. It was done in the= early 1980s. I don't know where the idea originated.

In Plan 9, we (I?) replaced the ioctl interface, which was offensively no= n-portable.

-rob


On Wed, Jun 2= 6, 2019 at 10:01 AM ron minnich <r= minnich@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 12:34 PM Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> wro= te:
>
> It's interesting that this comment about ptrace was written
> as early as 1980.
>
> Ron Minnich's reference to Plan 9 /proc misses the mark, though.
your comment about my comment misses the mark; I was not talking about
the origins of /proc. This is probably because I was not clear and
probably because few people realize that the plan 9 process debugging
interface was strings written and read to/from /proc/<pid>/[various files], rather than something like ptrace.

The first time I saw that debug-interface-in-proc in plan 9, it made
me think back to the 4.1c bsd manual ptrace comment, and I wondered if
there was any path that led from this man page entry to the ideas in
the plan 9 methods.

I actually implemented the plan 9 debug model in linux back around
2007, but was pretty sure getting it upstream would never happen, so
let it die.

ron
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