From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32081 invoked from network); 2 May 2022 10:03:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 May 2022 10:03:45 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 594369D460; Mon, 2 May 2022 20:03:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24569D431; Mon, 2 May 2022 20:03:22 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="E8was32B"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9061A9D431; Mon, 2 May 2022 20:03:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-f182.google.com (mail-il1-f182.google.com [209.85.166.182]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10D709CE23 for ; Mon, 2 May 2022 20:03:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-f182.google.com with SMTP id f5so7602403ilj.13 for ; Mon, 02 May 2022 03:03:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=huyJ8oUu2JZ0RNVzrk+PbTUXZiYUnY2fvSXfZXAeDnk=; b=E8was32BafFmBbWxaLau76YAYn2x5kTt1U46Z5ghIpiUMY8Q24HIfENWOYz2uuAq/g TntMqHA0GbstYi9QXWGkilC6oO3oqwcKLSpsuvBXyZLbQMNfFBNaJOoxQXYlMXk49GEa LiHtpi+qB3VtpmELW9n/VgIcnFrMWiudWwrpm74cn4tZVmB4NLrNld4bk5R9Zyg/0K7p fcE43a5z4TPtxNJGX9//LN6Fy2NPQOpfqg4SSsocI9BBycUIsRQJd6XijdQR/Z/5UC8P t7Ejr6CHRJkRqgrG6KikR+DKSBg85aSkf4id1FIerYAcAjJJ3/VH5gGMUOkfw49QP6aT Jl4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=huyJ8oUu2JZ0RNVzrk+PbTUXZiYUnY2fvSXfZXAeDnk=; b=As8GFEd13MfnslRZtprAsWkhN20GDw4meWGZ4lZDiPArgV1cD307NMfg/ARVg02gCj Zhjbcg/Gf6wJSHBWyL1l5JUF9L0CJGpQsetlJv3LqHGomnYS/LvbWvvYBQ4gznpHj14v n/YCKJbfzLX2nHz4vmpLelOYfbQPQ9EoYOlfjH8uTXpslNNCD7CRUj+GeCXyNEfGOw6w Qo/a97HzlWP6mIhZm8GoYW51d0Qbeni1pMpQb1GdfjvOYwViX8ij2x5XXv7mydRME7Kc firFjQooFZOKfbrBKRChiR1cToT8q3FNwm/rTmOHI0NdDeJttiXg9lgwKaohMF7Y484Y XkKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FxYWxSFIKbqP8EGRzR3fDibI2GWiOfbOK3dMR0jncwefePZ5H 9cxKz1d125r4K7jsEgB2YdQrEeeaEUSd3pTCrcr4TsXr X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyFPGniViC+EOcQ5VcffkJzbP+X2h9nRqco2QvsgJQWt1XRc2cC7ajPsNyVinekVguUBoeBGTd8PPxozulFTTM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1788:b0:2cd:7dbf:9b30 with SMTP id y8-20020a056e02178800b002cd7dbf9b30mr4325368ilu.44.1651485799220; Mon, 02 May 2022 03:03:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220430104546.1C13022135@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20220430125207.4DDE8200B5@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20220502095514.7C2BC21547@orac.inputplus.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20220502095514.7C2BC21547@orac.inputplus.co.uk> From: Rob Pike Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 20:03:08 +1000 Message-ID: To: Ralph Corderoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] Aleph Null in Software Practice & Experience. X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Under option, maybe. I'm not a fan of putting invisible characters into a program designed to translate numbers into cut-and-pasteable text. Plus, as you said, it just makes other things break, although perhaps they should be encouraged not to. -rob On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 7:56 PM Ralph Corderoy wrote= : > > Hi Rob, > > > The output of "unicode 5d0-5e7" (robpike.io/cmd/unicode has the > > command) is fun. > > > > 05d0 =D7=90 05d1 =D7=91 05d2 =D7=92 05d3 =D7=93 > > 05d4 =D7=94 05d5 =D7=95 05d6 =D7=96 05d7 =D7=97 > > 05d8 =D7=98 05d9 =D7=99 05da =D7=9A 05db =D7=9B > > 05dc =D7=9C 05dd =D7=9D 05de =D7=9E 05df =D7=9F > > 05e0 =D7=A0 05e1 =D7=A1 05e2 =D7=A2 05e3 =D7=A3 > > 05e4 =D7=A4 05e5 =D7=A5 05e6 =D7=A6 05e7 =D7=A7 > > > > For comparison, here is "unicode 3d0-3e7". It will be fun to watch how > > it's rendered. > > > > 03d0 =CF=90 03d1 =CF=91 03d2 =CF=92 03d3 =CF=93 > > 03d4 =CF=94 03d5 =CF=95 03d6 =CF=96 03d7 =CF=97 > > 03d8 =CF=98 03d9 =CF=99 03da =CF=9A 03db =CF=9B > > 03dc =CF=9C 03dd =CF=9D 03de =CF=9E 03df =CF=9F > > 03e0 =CF=A0 03e1 =CF=A1 03e2 =CF=A2 03e3 =CF=A3 > > 03e4 =CF=A4 03e5 =CF=A5 03e6 =CF=A6 03e7 =CF=A7 > > In the terminal where I read and write email, they're all as if =E2=80=98= 0041 A=E2=80=99. > But save the email's text/plain to foo.txt and foo.html, add a little HTM= L > to foo.html, and the browser, here Firefox, presents the Hebrew in both a= s > > 05d0 05 =D7=90d1 05 =D7=91d2 05 =D7=92d3 =D7=93 > 05d4 05 =D7=94d5 05 =D7=95d6 05 =D7=96d7 =D7=97 > 05d8 05 =D7=98d9 05 =D7=99da 05 =D7=9Adb =D7=9B > 05dc 05 =D7=9Cdd 05 =D7=9Dde 05 =D7=9Edf =D7=9F > 05e0 05 =D7=A0e1 05 =D7=A1e2 05 =D7=A2e3 =D7=A3 > 05e4 05 =D7=A4e5 05 =D7=A5e6 05 =D7=A6e7 =D7=A7 > > due to the mix of Unicode's strong, weak, and neutral bi-directional > character types. > > To see what I intend above needs a =E2=80=98broken=E2=80=99 renderer, lik= e a terminal. > For those with more intelligent renderers, it's as if runes normally > drawn as > > 00c0 =C3=80 00c1 =C3=81 00c2 =C3=82 00c3 =C3=83 > > became > > 00c0 00 =C3=80c1 00 =C3=81c2 00 =C3=82c3 =C3=83 > > Wrapping each of the Hebrew characters in the text and HTML files in > LRI...PDI, > > LRI U+2066 Left-to-right isolate > PDI U+2069 Pop directional isolate > > so the first row becomes > > 0030 0035 0064 0030 0020 2066 05d0 2069 0020 > 0030 0035 0064 0031 0020 2066 05d1 2069 0020 > 0030 0035 0064 0032 0020 2066 05d2 2069 0020 > 0030 0035 0064 0033 0020 2066 05d3 2069 000a > > has Firefox display the tables as intended. Perhaps the unicode command > should do this to ensure correct display, especially if some terminals > ever start to improve? > > I note that vim(1) here doesn't realise LRI and PDI are zero width > so the cursor position drifts past the end of the visible line. > ed(1) copes without a murmur. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph.