From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427F331927 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 22:27:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C8842751; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:27:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB03C42750 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:27:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2ef714374c0so1704155a91.0 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 13:27:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734125232; x=1734730032; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yb+kDOHhPnH3eMMZyrhdcxdLOdcshZ3ynooIiCPApUo=; b=iAahbAsl9q6VuXfmnOV0Ye9+0wZV20D4c6y4m8J/lZvfje5KSI5zul7BDTWoAj970Z Hb2WYV9Pgg8buBMaYil3BKwIOuJjmf2vF7HAEc2LRcwbk/hh6/WgciUuBb58vPJxGnxR oJemTXsxKbWBydVpV2nAQJGil72DivqdQP6B67SoeZQXIMp5yD3XhHoGS7g/mUtg9wuK R3uAXfq6eJy+oi8fTI9gJKpavJHoRUgzAWcTNd70j6m6x/c5mrGfU7XUlXJxLrJ+rbF5 JEJZUXhugmlFK/j2DoZ/PmEDMJh9sGHnP8aTXDWaJPdWODVMTKc7zCuQpH77NEBb8Cdc rjlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734125232; x=1734730032; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yb+kDOHhPnH3eMMZyrhdcxdLOdcshZ3ynooIiCPApUo=; b=ZlIBD/8DsST1VGy7VTbFqJOvmGC+fTHWXwulRJOQpwyVwfDK65rQ44kq1lMrUclfvR ousQKc6yWIpyT1i4FTcLScXlv6JjQ+ZPdnG7e91LdhaLSaUpdUIBBMpMyDTMnyK4BpDs Qzoch23Jo5Obt0hzo9U68+8LtuxyIqr2dOzKnlsf8tKD44RFmQQy0t74vaHUCNae89KZ /c+/FXTwooaB2F8C8jDXo1THHyLLv6RymH2s0IW54qq5oHT+hKLiOmvmFzJh6BeR7UJD xxV+GPFfOADg6Jx87T/9bob7ZCLbSobUjEVIp6AwJCALe25gH7BimGH80j08Qd/EJ6JP yq6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw919r+6O8PvTn8jDzy1vQiiO1z56VRWpz+7JFYD0aCFb2TwCVb nsqZW8MPnZ+GVSLHK2D624yUzNh8raRWhF5nGj728Yh/dOuEYrB+N7eb6OBd7oaGqkoN9IU17Xz tEwbE9affCGfmzcRC8yPvsrOSBC8= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct5A/9EEBmRuUi/pXUst8Ouz3QLNntwmdgUwIA5xdGWWMte7z9/+ge9pcAIEd9 PKf3WvhsRlJdoHBPjTZg/Gjyd2Kf4FD0pvNHJZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEgkv7mAPWd/aVVmotPikFUOlQst5WraIijAfHn5/Mw8D5ADs6+i0sAdkVFPDrCxtGCE/J4x9YsnObqqFYXD1A= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3812:b0:2e2:c2b0:d03e with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2f291648719mr5373037a91.5.1734125232220; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 13:27:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 08:27:01 +1100 Message-ID: To: Marc Rochkind Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007671f206292d7e70" Message-ID-Hash: QCYMHCQQBIFIG47GEVFLVACPLMCRK2TF X-Message-ID-Hash: QCYMHCQQBIFIG47GEVFLVACPLMCRK2TF X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The UNIX Historical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: SCCS roach motel List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000007671f206292d7e70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To answer your actual question, it is of course a riff on a TV ad for a cockroach trap in the 1980s. The sentiment of the quote, as I saw it (it's possible I was the one who added it to the fortunes file after ken saw the SCCS burble at the top of some file from USG and laughed), was primarily a reaction to the taint it added to the previously annotation-free top of the file. It was also a response to the march of corporate code management stepping into the research world, or perhaps the hacker world. It's a philosophical thing, a feeling, not an argument. It all seems so quaint now. -rob On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 8:22=E2=80=AFAM Rob Pike wrote: > According to the Unix room fortunes file, the actual quote is > > SCCS: the source-code motel -- your code checks in but it never checks ou= t. > Ken Thompson > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 3:52=E2=80=AFAM Marc Rochkind wrote: > >> IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering has asked me to write a >> retrospective on the influence of SCCS over the last 50 years, as my SCC= S >> paper was published in 1975. They consider it one of the most influentia= l >> papers from TSE's first decade. >> >> There's a funny quote from Ken Thompson that circulates from time-to-tim= e: >> >> "SCCS, the source motel! Programs check in and never check out!" >> >> But nobody seems to know what it means exactly. As part of my research, = I >> asked Ken what the quote meant, sunce I wanted to include it. He explain= ed >> that it refers to SCCS storing binary data in its repository file, >> preventing UNIX text tools from operating on the file. >> >> Of course, this is only one of SCCS's many weaknesses. If you have >> anything funny about any of the others, post it here. I already have all >> the boring usual stuff (e.g., long-term locks, file-oriented, no merging= ). >> >> Marc Rochkind >> mrochkind.com >> >> >> >> >> --0000000000007671f206292d7e70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To answer your actual question, it is of course a riff on a TV ad= for a cockroach trap in the 1980s. The sentiment of the quote, as I saw it= (it's possible I was the one who added it to the fortunes file after k= en saw the SCCS burble at the top of some file from USG and laughed), was p= rimarily a reaction to the taint it added to the previously annotation-free= top of the file. It was also a response to the march of corporate code man= agement stepping into the research world, or perhaps the hacker world. It&#= 39;s a philosophical thing, a feeling, not an argument.

It all seems so q= uaint now.

-rob


On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 8:22= =E2=80=AFAM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail= .com> wrote:
According to the Unix room fortunes file, the actual quote is=
<= br>
SCCS: the source-code motel -- your code checks in but it never ch= ecks out.
Ken Thompson

On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 3:52=E2=80=AFAM Mar= c Rochkind <mro= chkind@gmail.com> wrote:
IEEE Transactions on Software Enginee= ring has asked me to write a retrospective on the influence of SCCS over th= e last 50 years, as my SCCS paper was published in 1975. They consider it o= ne of the most influential papers from TSE's first decade.
There's a funny quote from Ken Thompson that circulates fr= om time-to-time:

"SCCS, the source motel! Pro= grams check in and never check out!"

But nobo= dy seems to know what it means exactly. As part of my research, I asked Ken= what the quote meant, sunce I wanted to include it. He explained that it r= efers to SCCS storing binary data in its repository file, preventing UNIX t= ext tools from operating on the file.

Of course, t= his is only one of SCCS's=C2=A0many=C2=A0weaknesses. If you have anythi= ng funny about any of the others, post it here. I already have all the bori= ng usual stuff (e.g., long-term locks, file-oriented, no merging).

Marc Rochkind


=

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