From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32671 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2021 01:22:17 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Aug 2021 01:22:17 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7A8D59D539; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:22:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAC49D52B; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:21:43 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="n0d+H21T"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 430679D52B; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:21:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-f49.google.com (mail-pj1-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FC2B9D52A for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:21:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-f49.google.com with SMTP id fz10so8408220pjb.0 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:21:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0BIpa7JwUUfAH4CY68lAgN8oPosVMOXH0u7vBTFp2J4=; b=n0d+H21T22oH4fq55Ieb5vQQfjiPUH2ZWyVqGF47dFdYP8jTLdNTG2M511uun194IV /7Rv3CJ/vyeT3E3L8IBLo6BQwVtGbk1Xhtyw12w0LBMjW+1GMXJKQaYf5H46gZOxYYJV C3yQjVeOAzKTZfdVz6kCNJyM2wPIV2q51EeOM5F6nUtUEZmIPtY0CnMBsyMNmnrN7sHe iBZBVFxAIZXsYH2SoKqwXoibHhz8VD+K2prmqdVU+1R9oZh22mfTX36yQTZP0kvGfbsU cTM45JOlLxiu6H5oLGOCch+Gieez4VXGUQ2nQ97hzkcPEk5a1k4bBM/ZI7zQ6aCKgA9q pUGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0BIpa7JwUUfAH4CY68lAgN8oPosVMOXH0u7vBTFp2J4=; b=HZMplP1VASA1xXgaGIo/IBZxmPHpFn60ISgKpv+DAm9YiJevAtm1B0K0eJdYV7Baij s1x5mWutWs+UjYOOn7hToi9JfnMBy9ZEP508xGYdU9M8/71IdKasSiwROgxKfT95aQzZ hcdPSKg153VVYwi5p3EIDQdHIzpoqkvdeulmIY+W6sh8xgfu9PoLVkmvJLBfOTKFauzz pUrMCY1NDUxvberxh8QtJvAOOP/kb/V96csmrb9d2Bd1I+Hs6E1phI219wGd2ladsFj3 +p08Cqh1RqLBnmonqRUIGRl5ap+QVUghnISdppfg9QkwX1MLVo4O9YYB+LvEOnaSJJwZ JxCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+lKxC8c76n5Tvk/O0vHjHG/0TBgQpAtuyDCzQER9i2zAFnAvn ww/xf82rxtTQsn05Bth7qolaH4+fZ1zgvc+SsXU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwQ/nX/174SKCw1FRPprS+Q48NT04/Oj51eGNkQ8OV71CRazBYVTJ4cNwUys+aED3bdPRSvz/ZKqCFYMyg2U8E= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bb81:b0:12d:a7ec:3d85 with SMTP id m1-20020a170902bb8100b0012da7ec3d85mr19562737pls.17.1630286499716; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202108292212.17TMCGow1448973@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210829235745.GC20021@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20210829235745.GC20021@mcvoy.com> From: Rob Pike Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:21:29 +1000 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b2a4c905cabca714" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Is it time to resurrect the original dsw (delete with switches)? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heretics Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b2a4c905cabca714 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Do you even have input switches and HALT/CONT switches? I don't think so.... Commiserations. -rob On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 9:58 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 03:12:16PM -0700, Jon Steinhart wrote: > > After a bit of poking around I discovered that btrfs SILENTLY remounted > the > > filesystem because it had errors. Sure, it put something in a log file, > > but I don't spend all day surfing logs for things that shouldn't be going > > wrong. Maybe my expectation that filesystems just work is antiquated. > > I give them credit for remounting read-only when seeing errors, they may > have gotten that from BitKeeper. When we opened a history file, if we > encountered any errors we opened the history file in read only mode so > if it worked enough you could see your data, great, but don't write on > top of bad data. > > > Although it's been discredited by some, I'm still a believer in "stop and > > fsck" policing of disk drives. > > Me too. Though with a 32TB drive (I'm guessing rotating media), that's > going to take a long time. If I had a drive that big, I'd divide it > into managable chunks and mount them all under /drive/{a,b,c,d,e...} > so that when something goes wrong you don't have to check the whole > 32TB. > > > Near the top of the manual page it says: > > > > Warning > > Do not use --repair unless you are advised to do so by a developer > > or an experienced user, and then only after having accepted that > > no fsck successfully repair all types of filesystem corruption. Eg. > > some other software or hardware bugs can fatally damage a volume. > > > > Whoa! I'm sure that operators are standing by, call 1-800-FIX-BTRFS. > > Really? Is a ploy by the developers to form a support business? > > That's a stretch, they are just trying to not encourage you to make a > mess. > > I sent Linus an email to find out where btrfs is, I'll report back when > he replies. > > --lm > --000000000000b2a4c905cabca714 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Do you even have input switches and HALT/CONT switches? I = don't think so....

Commiserations.

-rob



On Mon, = Aug 30, 2021 at 9:58 AM Larry McVoy <lm@= mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 03:12:16PM -0700, Jon Steinhart wrote: > After a bit of poking around I discovered that btrfs SILENTLY remounte= d the
> filesystem because it had errors.=C2=A0 Sure, it put something in a lo= g file,
> but I don't spend all day surfing logs for things that shouldn'= ;t be going
> wrong.=C2=A0 Maybe my expectation that filesystems just work is antiqu= ated.

I give them credit for remounting read-only when seeing errors, they may have gotten that from BitKeeper.=C2=A0 When we opened a history file, if we=
encountered any errors we opened the history file in read only mode so
if it worked enough you could see your data, great, but don't write on<= br> top of bad data.

> Although it's been discredited by some, I'm still a believer i= n "stop and
> fsck" policing of disk drives.=C2=A0

Me too.=C2=A0 Though with a 32TB drive (I'm guessing rotating media), t= hat's
going to take a long time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If I had a drive that big, I'd d= ivide it
into managable chunks and mount them all under /drive/{a,b,c,d,e...}
so that when something goes wrong you don't have to check the whole 32TB.

> Near the top of the manual page it says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Warning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Do not use --repair unless you are advised to do so= by a developer
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or an experienced user, and then only after having = accepted that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0no fsck successfully repair all types of filesystem= corruption. Eg.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some other software or hardware bugs can fatally da= mage a volume.
>
> Whoa!=C2=A0 I'm sure that operators are standing by, call 1-800-FI= X-BTRFS.
> Really?=C2=A0 Is a ploy by the developers to form a support business?<= br>
That's a stretch, they are just trying to not encourage you to make a <= br> mess.

I sent Linus an email to find out where btrfs is, I'll report back when=
he replies.

--lm
--000000000000b2a4c905cabca714--