From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F39E26A31 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 08:53:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0668943330; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 16:53:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F9644332F for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 16:53:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-6bce380eb9bso160386a12.0 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 23:53:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1720076008; x=1720680808; darn=tuhs.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=mK0sCvuob34W+kT3CHhn00/gUqxocuynOudP1Vnf4as=; b=X7QoZJTeMJsFekflFtHip5O723vcRfTsfUaFqk0uc/onj2egkv/+/xU840keb8r9Lp U20rLaZA7Uwj1yRnRBAdnuz/wjSMRdZUjbM30Vqx5buaxeKCtsXjZi1qJ/NuPkpLzvgR qlYMAZVmByXoXtvgCKmlAtAXHK9MAEeYsDH+M8jT3BiRQfIxpNoHR/dIXpvFEDHqOEF8 Nq6kEShTFIJM/C1GyP7KjB7h64JmJW+n5cbQEtWhlAyl3M1PxSqz5sT3MD33sFXL4KZU NS064aXRID7msdkLQulPV3sqxaL25ZV2g7HEIiAJl4WY5xCZcU5Pjp+CijfXmQ+K5sIS qgqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720076008; x=1720680808; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mK0sCvuob34W+kT3CHhn00/gUqxocuynOudP1Vnf4as=; b=N5o9IXrdVyZ0CUuzbTohQKiN+fRnYQxc4hu4ufM7eYTp+8vzWyjKSsn2YAopJFMTSZ 3uYx6aa9Ss+8l8sCHeLVxLuEg+dEzaI0ulMMtz3GFBzk9p9pDhjJu9KORMUbSE9LoCqs xlnXnRR6E/Bgf+yiWTOP/d7byuaSeRIuO75BLB1Qh4uvEOsGnNESQaak2kcvuHmJSLRd 0+ymcoIazhJC45NygTN9/0L224Xwi8FZ6/7bSNUZ/1+KgH+0adCH8hOs7PRkVvSUN79E oBAyzYctvrsxx7saREIv6X25oxCuprtNxolyHF7CgEMhmmQP0Jr8sYUgO29W7V574G7T 6H/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxOpOnLsvxrl9VkpZgyivko8/zeMwdAxGWDi9d3thRnq4UEQWEd oYU/9MmH8c7M8XAM2Jj9hPuRaRtykMnqfDpUOUuBV+tByapZrq9QFv6iVYGrYerfPbPcLk0O8Sr MsHFN16FueCcQT0uuPdNlOj8GdrnKtw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGzhafn7JkyX7MEYnd8/cX6d/eyFRbTplgag7z7YAb04cVs4BX36PliRV/HvyMJIR2whe6eslw1wKxrknLFGX8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:394b:b0:1c0:bce5:c19c with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1c0cc727f8dmr771624637.12.1720076008482; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 23:53:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> <20240704015323.7EEE88EBE798@ary.qy> <-xc_VtRQ7D8ll__tVJJEF4MXsGZF-vvAKLrh2Oq0lPKemGXIS1XAQLNs0vumI1_OZ_0UO0LjdImMHuijnPJe_R-3neo-2ZwT4l_L3hLOTLU=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <-xc_VtRQ7D8ll__tVJJEF4MXsGZF-vvAKLrh2Oq0lPKemGXIS1XAQLNs0vumI1_OZ_0UO0LjdImMHuijnPJe_R-3neo-2ZwT4l_L3hLOTLU=@protonmail.com> From: Rob Pike Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 16:53:17 +1000 Message-ID: To: segaloco Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: XFV4BRJHLJ27IIY3ZHF7QWCDZBKAHRW5 X-Message-ID-Hash: XFV4BRJHLJ27IIY3ZHF7QWCDZBKAHRW5 X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: I liked working with Ken. One fond memory was porting Plan 9 to the SPARC over Christmas break. People went home, we hacked, Bonnie brought us food. A week later people came back and we had a new architecture up and running, pretty much in toto. (The way the system worked made this a joy to do - so much just worked right away, including for example the ps command.) One whole day of that was dealing with register windows, which brought nothing to the table but trouble, and forced us to use R1 as the stack pointer register. That was not the fondest day. Architecture people: please just let me pretend your CPU is like a PDP-11. No surprises, OK? I'll handle the complaints about irrelevance in the modern age. -rob On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 12:59=E2=80=AFPM segaloco via TUHS w= rote: > > On Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 at 6:53 PM, John Levine wr= ote: > > > According to sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au: > > > > > Developers of Initial Unix arguably were 10x-100x more productive tha= n IBM OS/360, a =E2=80=98best practice=E2=80=99 development at the time, > > > so what CSRC did differently is worth close examination. > > > > > > Ken Thompson was an astonishingly productive programmer. I don't think > > you can build a business plan that starts with "hire someone like > > Ken." > > > > One weekend just for fun he pounded out most of an APL interpreter, > > which I then took and spent a month part time adding a few features > > like saving and loading workspaces, and adjusting it to use the APL > > character set on our funky bitmap terminals at Yale. He did more in > > the weekend than I did in the month, and I am not a terrible > > programmer. > > To add to the praise, Ken, yourself, and others weren't exactly working o= n modern 115200 baud terminal emulators and IDEs with all the fancy modern = tab completion and automatic linting either. History has given me an appre= ciation that these sorts of conveniences work at all. If I'm ever having a= really bad day with my tools, I just think about Ken, Dennis, et. al. hamm= ering away at 33 ASRs making legends happen and suddenly I don't feel so ba= d. > > - Matt G.