From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23775 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2022 06:13:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Aug 2022 06:13:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE9940CC9; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 16:12:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-f179.google.com (mail-vk1-f179.google.com [209.85.221.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48AE440010 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 16:12:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id b81so5404317vkf.1 for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 23:12:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=5zv+1cis9eMaQAbS1WlRYNBSrp22tclN81lY0JdYREo=; b=l636fVaoH+67st7i9clHkypho24Il7oKHtcx9lXPUUu102LTZAv1uyocWJakikqEnO G5sceuYt/euooNvvedmKR2DXxE7xUDEJ9nEn9N6OZXw7LVVWzypJBtLfwyi1oTRvHi/O lZLuBUclRnBnm4y+smgG6SRMm5NGcluaQE3HVmUAG6S1kkswGVGJLHqYdY/cky/GABbR opvOQY37ryv3kq6pHBCyOz8EMUdA8Dr+i9al9XL2V07QoHgkPFXhgne5hFueLlPafBnd YlnfoDL/LLkn7LN0xon0+mcw+Gi4Tu1lG8R3im5CT+5TeOMTP+kaBBAtODPWapmAGvKg 3ygg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=5zv+1cis9eMaQAbS1WlRYNBSrp22tclN81lY0JdYREo=; b=6uUGSqs5dvibZ5WZYmj5S7TGinwdh/Rp3Zbo1TOVxoGps+W3lUbYHgNm5YbNxzq37O OLclSjT1vuBjLQVZogoRvhdoNWGh6zzGs1Oqc5M9xvt78dRFTZbN/YEGV0YEI/+9tgHa xHYCuC5RJP4ireVsFxKFBSG9KqcyfGda+DB1Wg+8B8tLXvLml025Jk1ZL7viGWrOTZ8p u3/cV+Q7pSvUFH1eJOfuBwmddoMIAxM6ZSNsWNpyK3ReJC2sl7SGh/Cn3Pb8cCxBtJZp YfnOANvC26BBI780neE9yagAfkK8+1qa8jfE0KykbBslhjme7ImAwCJwsSbkPKHm/4wN nLsw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1JisiTEGveMch1JqaFrpJiVTxM0CXciw04f+PTuXXRW+4W7n+n hRzq2xV/7+qoEWkmJ+omeNZlP3ys4TYe1gI67CW3Buoo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR7U5QsKh8s26GTzGOrWeOIIrT+vtcwzp/dVuAjejG1w9pGt9RsNRbIH6zoC1tP+bcjo4vQ66yNgsalP6rQTS0A= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:300c:0:b0:36f:eb7d:746f with SMTP id w12-20020a1f300c000000b0036feb7d746fmr8750900vkw.27.1660025510099; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 23:11:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1oF87S-4zW-00@marmaro.de> <8NgHeeJiYEBE0zhtd9RdKIeYWcAwtxsnAj7YhVIvLpz-yt0__LeFvVzNNGgSNTeDGnVQy-qxkoHWvmRi84ybYyNAiMRDJuVoAaEG96UAu4s=@protonmail.com> <20220724190253.GA23421@tau1.ceti.pl> <20220728003014.GB6195@tau1.ceti.pl> <202207280103.26S13ZL5059300@ultimate.com> <1E44D7CE-CC4D-4F86-97CC-208E3972A785@msweng.com> <20220729050748.GB12246@tau1.ceti.pl> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 16:11:38 +1000 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Gevaryahu Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8fe7c05e5c8ce1b" Message-ID-Hash: KWRNOUQ6YTZFXQACOS7HMICUQ3KDJQBC X-Message-ID-Hash: KWRNOUQ6YTZFXQACOS7HMICUQ3KDJQBC X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: SNOBOL and RATSNO List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000d8fe7c05e5c8ce1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We're probably well off topic now but... Many years ago I ran into Bob Dewar on a visit to Cambridge University and we got to talking. He said that the original implementation of SPITBOL, for the System/360, was in assembler (of course), and written by him and Belcher (?). The story he told was that they wrote it all down first, put it on punch cards, and sent it to the IBM machine. The next day they got back a listing with a bunch of errors. They iterated. By the fourth round=E2=80=94fifth day=E2=80=94they had a working SPITBOL. I still marvel at the productivity and precision of his generation of programmers. -rob On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 3:13 PM Jonathan Gevaryahu wrote: > On 7/29/2022 1:07 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 10:13:04PM -0600, William H. Mitchell wrote: > > [...] > >> Phil Budne: Thanks for your CSNOBOL4 implementation! I=E2=80=99ve use= d it to > show students SNOBOL4 in a comparative languages class at the U of > Arizona. (I was thinking your name sounded familiar!) > >> > >>> On Jul 27, 2022, at 7:03 PM, Phil Budne wrote: > >>> > >>>> Anyway, I have got Phil Budne's implementation > >>> C'est moi! SNOBOL came out of Bell Labs in Holmdel NJ. > >>> There was a SNOBOL3 implementation in Unix 6th Edition days called > "sno". > > [...] > > > > Yes, I have had a look and it seems to be very nicely written > > project. Oh, and there is plenty of Snobol4 code to look at, too... > > > > Thank you. > > > Speaking of SNOBOL4, I typed up the SNOBOL code from the NRL Report 7948 > (1975) titled "Automatic Translation of English Text to Phonetics by > Means of Letter-to-Sound Rules" by Honey Sue Elovitz, Rodney W. Johnson, > Astrid McHugh and John E. Shore, and made some minor modifications to > make it work properly with the windows/catspaw version of snobol/spitbol. > > It might not be necessary to make those changes at all, with Phil's > version, I'll need to try that! > > I have both the patched and unpatched versions at > https://github.com/Lord-Nightmare/NRL_TextToPhonemes and it does behave > correctly/matches the paper (at least the patched version does). > > I recently (within the past month) discovered another later port of the > NRL ruleset from 1978 as part of Peter B. Maggs' ANGLOPHONE package for > S-100 systems, intended for use with the Computalker CT-1 speech > synthesis S-100 card. Apparently Rodney W. Johnson had continued > developing the rules even after the 1975/1976 publications of the NRL > report and the IEEE ITASSP version of said report, and I haven't updated > the bibliography on the github readme yet. > > > Jonathan G. > > -- > Jonathan Gevaryahu AKA Lord Nightmare > jgevaryahu@gmail.com > jgevaryahu@hotmail.com > > --000000000000d8fe7c05e5c8ce1b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We're probably well off topic now but...

Many years ago I = ran into Bob Dewar on a visit to Cambridge University and we got to talking= . He said that the original implementation of SPITBOL, for the System/360, = was in assembler (of course), and written by him and Belcher (?). The story= he told was that they wrote it all down first, put it on punch cards, and = sent it to the IBM machine. The next day they got back a listing with a bun= ch of errors. They iterated. By the fourth round=E2=80=94fifth day=E2=80=94= they had a working SPITBOL.

I still marvel at the productivity and precisi= on of his generation of programmers.

-rob


On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 3= :13 PM Jonathan Gevaryahu <jge= varyahu@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 7/29/2022 1:07 AM, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 10:13:04PM -0600, William H. Mitchell wrote: > [...]
>> Phil Budne: Thanks for your CSNOBOL4 implementation!=C2=A0 I=E2=80= =99ve used it to show students SNOBOL4 in a comparative languages class at = the U of Arizona.=C2=A0 (I was thinking your name sounded familiar!)
>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2022, at 7:03 PM, Phil Budne <phil@ultimate.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have got Phil Budne's implementation
>>> C'est moi!=C2=A0 SNOBOL came out of Bell Labs in Holmdel N= J.
>>> There was a SNOBOL3 implementation in Unix 6th Edition days ca= lled "sno".
> [...]
>
> Yes, I have had a look and it seems to be very nicely written
> project. Oh, and there is plenty of Snobol4 code to look at, too... >
> Thank you.
>
Speaking of SNOBOL4, I typed up the SNOBOL code from the NRL Report 7948 (1975) titled "Automatic Translation of English Text to Phonetics by <= br> Means of Letter-to-Sound Rules" by Honey Sue Elovitz, Rodney W. Johnso= n,
Astrid McHugh and John E. Shore, and made some minor modifications to
make it work properly with the windows/catspaw version of snobol/spitbol.
It might not be necessary to make those changes at all, with Phil's version, I'll need to try that!

I have both the patched and unpatched versions at
https://github.com/Lord-Nightmare/NRL_TextToPhon= emes and it does behave
correctly/matches the paper (at least the patched version does).

I recently (within the past month) discovered another later port of the NRL ruleset from 1978 as part of Peter B. Maggs' ANGLOPHONE package for=
S-100 systems, intended for use with the Computalker CT-1 speech
synthesis S-100 card. Apparently Rodney W. Johnson had continued
developing the rules even after the 1975/1976 publications of the NRL
report and the IEEE ITASSP version of said report, and I haven't update= d
the bibliography on the github readme yet.


Jonathan G.

--
Jonathan Gevaryahu AKA Lord Nightmare
jgevaryahu@gmail.= com
jgevaryahu@hotm= ail.com

--000000000000d8fe7c05e5c8ce1b--