From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24013 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2022 23:37:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Feb 2022 23:37:22 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 772AF94499; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:37:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A5593D52; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:34:56 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="VG0o4Up7"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 136B893D52; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:34:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-f170.google.com (mail-pg1-f170.google.com [209.85.215.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE69193D51 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:34:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id 139so11040134pge.1 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:34:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2NDSwqcSXNTMo0nICmLAdEHnSxt3qUmpCKsNc0buzwo=; b=VG0o4Up7vYbPrtx1vYlAjIbyZkm8XuylU68CW+FrZAFXqU+aGi+r9OCMPQtlmlFk95 EtDaKd+AuEr2fEzEUQWj0vdy+hQMYtepxHxZtgRCay7i9TluP4HDNgxZpDH/6QkxGLHQ sum+6omTqZKe2gzWCuJmumEcSDtDRdoXeLU5i3Pffr7RbFU+LahGdk8RSJrPNfdoJbvk syeMzcTdH/88rrF+gUKEYBCJC6FaxImCI+u9e/Kuodsxz6jdSQXn0lQ9D/V1c3dIdoOd tve1kOX0Hd9U1xswFXRMqfLj2759Ne8tAN1l65xqyJlKejeuLvFnXWI2lGqsNhfmKGln SQ8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2NDSwqcSXNTMo0nICmLAdEHnSxt3qUmpCKsNc0buzwo=; b=xmdzMgBqsXsVCzYWJ85juqGm7K8rLCxtF0dhXPrUtH5fF7zvI2XKlMTZq3xsdr+IAk MSAqT7SVf3ioecberIyeEuHrXdiPcDb9LpMT85wQW6OL6Am8ccIvovpK1fOcMPaelBtz V4bjbp1Dl+GkLhIHRQlX+Kow5BodjbuwXA/W3Jw8/25GbUTfbog0VsLuEfmL/36FtPWN HcjKNkFmt32vwd36z2ew7M7OfVZUCP2jNjhABrAvzuXsTtVQJJ8VXUZ8NIYjaSbWSQUL hCPgLQEPXxvRPqnPdr+p5qN7YwoEUImOhBNOwSe8bFa1/JepFaKsV3pfObt4YP/627N6 cRIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ac3gkhG5EBjxie2wIyytLtvXT/N6tLmP3wAZOuArxJC5grvZK kuzFaTww80XvRmp5CwC+SYmG7KRmRaCT2Pyytk/1+Mw5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxf0k0RLKvrpaJwO7alyJ+SCYxwPQpOSpujt4uXZMZ0AlaZxc++aOeyzhBa5H8g5jxfxLFNmQZffMNglTNXco0= X-Received: by 2002:a65:6255:0:b0:364:4513:67bf with SMTP id q21-20020a656255000000b00364451367bfmr11177627pgv.64.1645313691269; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:34:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8102A7AB-21F5-477D-8D37-5412103CD396@iitbombay.org> <4a8c1f33-ab34-7f5d-321a-a8d759eee7c8@in-ulm.de> In-Reply-To: <4a8c1f33-ab34-7f5d-321a-a8d759eee7c8@in-ulm.de> From: Rob Pike Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:34:40 +1100 Message-ID: To: Sven Mascheck Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001cbd1205d8677268" Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 source code for sh X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001cbd1205d8677268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Terminal editing was done in general on the Blit and follow-on systems. That's primarily why the Research shells didn't do it. But history (ha!) chose another path. -rob On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10:20 AM Sven Mascheck wrote: > On 19.02.2022 23:39, John Cowan wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 1:45 PM Rob Pike wrote: > > >> I undid all the macros for the v8 shell, with Steve's blessing, before >> doing the key work on that shell. But no one outside cared about any of the >> research Unixes after v7, >> > > Lots of us would have loved to care about them and were sad that we > couldn't until they were open sourced much later. > > > 8th ed sh (about '84) brought quite a few changes and fixes. Just naming a > few: > - environment variable HISTORY, pointing to a writable file, providing a > history mechanism by means of "=(1)" > - type is replaced by whatis, which produces output that can be > re-evaluated by the shell > - functions can be exported, in the same ways like variables > > keyword history: I always imagined that the Bourne shell would have been > in much wider use even nowadays, if only it had provided line editing and a > history at some point. Why not? Even Kenneth Almquist released his > SVR4-like reimplementation intentionally without history. All that might > have been implemented more elegant directly in the terminal I/O instead of > in every program? (that is, not in a MS-DOS-like way, where every program > even needs its own pager). > > I still wonder if it would be possible to properly provide line editing > and history in the terminal I/O in general. > > Sven > --0000000000001cbd1205d8677268 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Terminal editing was done in general on the Blit and follo= w-on systems. That's primarily why the Research shells didn't do it= .

But history (ha!) chose another path.
-rob


On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10= :20 AM Sven Mascheck <mascheck@in-= ulm.de> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 19.02.2022 23:39, John Cowan wrote:
=20
On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 1:4= 5 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
I undid all the macros for the v8 shell, with Steve's blessing, before doing the key work on that shell= . But no one outside cared about any of the research Unixes after v7,

Lots of us would have loved to care about them and were sad that we couldn't until they were open sourced much later.

8th ed sh (about '84) brought quite a few changes and fixes. Just naming a few:
- environment variable HISTORY, pointing to a writable file, providing a history mechanism by means of "=3D(1)"
- type is replaced by whatis, which produces output that can be re-evaluated by the shell
- functions can be exported, in the same ways like variables

keyword history: I always imagined that the Bourne shell would have been in much wider use even nowadays, if only it had provided line editing and a history at some point. Why not? Even Kenneth Almquist released his SVR4-like reimplementation intentionally without history. All that might have been implemented more elegant directly in the terminal I/O instead of in every program? (that is, not in a MS-DOS-like way, where every program even needs its own pager).

I still wonder if it would be possible to properly provide line editing and history in the terminal I/O in general.

Sven
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