From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18147 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2021 20:30:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Jul 2021 20:30:33 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F3B919C7F9; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 06:30:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89789C7F1; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 06:30:05 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="YR9ksWzv"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F20799C7F1; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 06:30:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f51.google.com (mail-wr1-f51.google.com [209.85.221.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAA789C7F0 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 06:29:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f51.google.com with SMTP id r11so9393450wro.9 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=x+/MfCRdSlSSuTKMiaXZ00BrqY028xEcyjrcIYj73Vg=; b=YR9ksWzvRvJLmvYyx4G5SpLtyi6uOrDNi6dsRdCQJ7U4OF3fU05Brm/VfjLgoS0Y/n NgtAfyrc9KTLhsSiOj0BCofmXMvh6wTIGg8jLZDeLewtrUNsPM4Z+5gWQNsNHBrSWZdd FtvI5x7alD36a0nEFkRcGBF4AIVgOz+fU1PDAdL/HqZD6jQoqJPi6thCCRaOLW7yXxVw nQaG6Bg5mUulCFGxKiTKY90UR5VKJHNAvxVZidwPSqqIxXSR0yLyOWFI0RrgBaKBh9EB NK+/ibeUTIHrgmy+w4odoc1GEql1Zlb2Cw+7jdYwsWUCnGX0fswKKPuf08zDirud+nSV bCTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=x+/MfCRdSlSSuTKMiaXZ00BrqY028xEcyjrcIYj73Vg=; b=keaT6x/woafO6BYep9cuh+UT9z5jUQEBMhjGZABI3L1Rb38mZRc1OJ1IhMyWOSO34o D4Rd98jFZ+aynkVvGebDNly75R6Q7WIPPLiCwKqNAf7J1QoYyLKOHPUtdLNgYeO+UBUF XZG3MeUxzMUiEMhHoOdKfFviV6UyicTQ5JpCll+Tkz7HqxqXcEh45IYszCpDkQQfSotc aVR9OK+vuNyhh5vDr6V+bscAqv1+e1fOOnANPLgA89UPL1NuIXRUErvpdI3224nJM3XN A+y322h3FIGYXI1w/vV0ROUeYeYkpCFaUjMfBztx6nmZd6+ibEk4OfeC7XLEfquq2yQ4 SRfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530qVW3gNoNXCNAekqDotERhSEPqoo7eQ/ZdF07vzyIlHLJccnIl yfK4j5lIuB1OW2KsdR/Zfkc7ZCaSsvvaw0LKDZ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxtZLlf2NTI6HniEf3Q/0gs/2Ndeg+2kBElv1N9OyQfyM2MGEz96WLYdon/JUTdDWy3SupX+Nr9nRbv3roW+V8= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ce82:: with SMTP id r2mr7874604wrn.161.1626380998176; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 13:29:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a5d:4d85:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 13:29:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Kosela Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 22:29:57 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YKsW5Qgpva0F6JldVMGKCs6sX40 Message-ID: To: Adam Thornton Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 7/15/21, Adam Thornton wrote: > The thing which Linux has managed to achieve, however, is the fact >> that there is a large and diverse base of corporate contributions. >> That to me is what makes the Linux model so interesting, and has been >> a reason for its long-term sustainability. >> >> > Although from a somewhat different perspective, it's also why the Linux > kernel syscall interface is so unruly, right? > > You've got your...some number in the small dozens of common syscalls, which > are already present for the most part in v6 or v7. These are the ones I, > at least, think of when I think of the Unix manual, section 2. > > And then you've got all the other calls added in by (usually) this database > vendor or that storage vendor or the other display adapter vendor to make > their stuff work more efficiently. > > And obviously there's a tradeoff there. Elegance departs, and you've > probably introduced some security risk because these syscalls are not > nearly as well-exercised as the common ones, but on the other hand you have > these large companies paying to work on the kernel, and you have them > supporting their product on Linux systems because the system can be bent > into accommodating them more easily, and it will run better there than on > OSes where they don't get to introduce features that benefit their > products, which further drives adoption. The last time I looked it was actually FreeBSD that had the most system calls (more than 500). Linux had more or less around the same number as OpenBSD (more than 300). UNIX V7 had around 50 -- this is still the golden standard, but obviously a lot has changed since then... --Andy