From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id db642e23 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:37:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9E5609B89D; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:37:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538C59B892; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:37:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="PFoaikpj"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 043049B892; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:37:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com (mail-lf1-f43.google.com [209.85.167.43]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B6E29B891 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:37:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id z13so8966657lfe.11 for ; Sun, 03 Feb 2019 15:37:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=sNfDVlHUn50AbXGJ3QByaBM+OKNrArqtA15dgMTwfk8=; b=PFoaikpjUCKRk1bVehf8JJXBSyHRa/L0e7sxRlQa4jhctM0kB8WqroX/ZAWEMBUY+F djzRG4nP5V7r8cNxv50WvzX0fBdBIH/UqOK2wFKQBArQI135k4FkOnUZtGQd04UPe9Eh eLUuVwXclt+zm1a87DroIO47JdeJBzl7tn+nIHLMqEXT0Zc2PMqxBZjGZG4OmJmHwvCy IvMy+emohRz7EHcUcOZfg+bttihxSPWMufA3vxsloBlwoXUWAZfoujLXskKasDL/1fr2 WyLg3azw+VWF0H7QdRHDE74M7xJyfbDuZcZ0XWLj7irRfV8YHbxZ0QAB5u4o8+AmvxyL cZqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sNfDVlHUn50AbXGJ3QByaBM+OKNrArqtA15dgMTwfk8=; b=HX4O4lvjeJ3rIDT+5F9sZQukBwHsj634ozoaBtNoG9e/nGZyd1cBjAW9PYCQaPrBtJ osht1fBHaj33TEcYNhC1WtpZV14fB8K8Ksl/IbFS01ns7dLrdsyaW1K5KBBRUYXXwQ9z LWEYJzKeiKUqFywzWBLNwhR3GWNOWH1Mq2T+Dj5YuxYkvjWw1pQxnh+qwCF/aNEb4D1D 2lnSfmlrwFBvcBJf1YivGZagTYe2W+VMxlfGhFP6F5LWyiKFhhQsKfM/Mj4bPNg6SI24 kz7M/ToGf/IlQArlhPY5NPxRvKAHDTEjo5GetmnuBpxX0m/ueHyEnPVqis3ZnrJjgi1X JLSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYcil4erH208x5MX9cDjmfh6RWmBQZ13dK0nPkknPl3xlOVJs98 Y1h73rbS3fTFOJ9zKCFHHwAMgS2KPHNot5vpmvY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ibs2Gc4LceASO5kqIe86dxKALgEMI4U4RMJ1R6GohFeLcmJyIhwdwdtg40ZsrALlpcyQzR4NPuc30a4NzjdGE4= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:41cf:: with SMTP id d15mr3616907lfi.14.1549237034544; Sun, 03 Feb 2019 15:37:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:634f:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 15:37:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20190203213907.GA6142@eureka.lemis.com> From: Andy Kosela Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 17:37:13 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: DF1INeO6cic1ixMIqQE2U7ubhu8 Message-ID: To: Steve Nickolas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001df306058105dbc6" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday, Ken Thompson! X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001df306058105dbc6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sunday, February 3, 2019, Steve Nickolas wrote: > On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> >> Without Unix, Microsoft would not have created Microsoft "Windows". >>> >> >> I'd like to see some evidence for that; without Unix, what would we be >> running now? I doubt whether it would've been Linux, there being no >> inspiration for it... >> >> My vague (and rough) recollection is CP/M -> DOS -> Windows. >> >> Even it has roots in Unix. >>> >> >> Only inasmuch as it has directories, users, and permissions (which any >> semi-decent OS would have anyway)... Admittedly I have never compromised >> my integrity by using/programming it, so I am willing to be corrected. >> >> And yes, I know about POSIX compatibility, but so is Linux, and it's >> different enough from Unix to be damned annoying. >> >> -- Dave >> >> > Keep in mind that the MS-DOS 2 "handles" API for file access is based > *directly* on Xenix, and replaced the MS-DOS 1 "FCB" API borrowed from CP/M. > > And also don't forget that Xenix had the largest UNIX installed base measured by the number of machines it was installed on. People talking about BSD and System V in the 80s, but it was Xenix that ruled on micros. So at the time Microsoft offered both UNIX and MS-DOS. --Andy --0000000000001df306058105dbc6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, February 3, 2019, Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Dave Horsfall wrote:

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:

Without Unix, Microsoft would not have created Microsoft "Windows"= ;.

I'd like to see some evidence for that; without Unix, what would we be = running now?=C2=A0 I doubt whether it would've been Linux, there being = no inspiration for it...

My vague (and rough) recollection is CP/M -> DOS -> Windows.

Even it has roots in Unix.

Only inasmuch as it has directories, users, and permissions (which any semi= -decent OS would have anyway)...=C2=A0 Admittedly I have never compromised = my integrity by using/programming it, so I am willing to be corrected.

And yes, I know about POSIX compatibility, but so is Linux, and it's di= fferent enough from Unix to be damned annoying.

-- Dave


Keep in mind that the MS-DOS 2 "handles" API for file access is b= ased *directly* on Xenix, and replaced the MS-DOS 1 "FCB" API bor= rowed from CP/M.


And also don't forget that Xenix had t= he largest UNIX installed base measured by the number of machines it was in= stalled on.=C2=A0 People talking about BSD and System V in the 80s, but it = was Xenix that ruled on micros.=C2=A0 So at the time Microsoft offered both= UNIX and MS-DOS.

--Andy
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