From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 81e42ec5 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3CF35A1A27; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 19:35:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22253A1A26; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 19:34:50 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=godEQpBj; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 32FDCA1A26; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 19:34:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm0-f42.google.com (mail-wm0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43175A1A1D for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 19:34:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm0-f42.google.com with SMTP id y2-v6so3656975wma.1 for ; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:34:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=c8mVnbOVV6+oRxwU6lplM4Hm4c+IEt0Z1fOj7YKsi1g=; b=godEQpBjFVfZ1RVMAt6pBP2ayZZUwh7dxsnO+eQwASLR6ma85/8BZn2ttxjuNtrDut 2fl7Jvhkaxmuf7oNKDHe4zMAtOvIv/+OetnKQyY1wLIGE8My5VV7xZoQoqrdYPx9vv2M GaUMfsGoKii4Cd9MPB80yJtyVI3P3Q1a2YgTiKjt60ekXU+oBMK5R4p4nbuFdNvhWqqW IXsjDgTNcIgSILujgezWOCYRGaFaal6aqpy9+q3gFUJGolprbEAEliyW3vdckXW4jyZz VBepp/xCZMo/hIzeI7KHYZfqS2UsQ/Ig/QByjcqQBJVgStUI8qn6VwxTNOtJKikEqei+ Xb6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c8mVnbOVV6+oRxwU6lplM4Hm4c+IEt0Z1fOj7YKsi1g=; b=SUOUsdeNnrPPuCKgo50iLD0hgY7QsIjzdukY4NUADJqpH0nyr93xp8pnXyobARbslG 4Mgw4Oa/TjqrRwB6OundHSjyUFWGz0R7PqTlCJgH/vtLAQm0+C04uOIFLgJAwqBAoyDy jcjGdu5csyve1BOUmtzwHC9pFFgv7PCd4ccPx7cnWysRdDH0KdtAjhnOADzLMu4t600D /8rxWhqfXzNfLdEel7M73nf1Kg/8HhOtrSrQt3/p6AQVXjSbBcJ/dTyfVwNe+BlxZ1rF W22hqfson9IuzjUqPHpQNvXjI9E+HPPFsy1Mel9aTVKcHxkOk1xtQbGZMU2jhYjqfTj1 SxrA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51ClMyx3EwubWA1iWgMvvd/DIvmc3y1B2zso3dnQTgOInAMUvmgp bfwglnmDDugQ1H0d5qS3cD9Xl0zqstbQzzokQfE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaM8E5lpPvEFtchZFQH+TGrODlBg+2owPUM1WboW0vgcEz7iKb4+Y+xJc4QRWcqXY/ZqqNvSTIy9FJBm4juM2A= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:e54:: with SMTP id 81-v6mr7557378wmo.84.1536053685851; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:34:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:80a3:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 02:34:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180831215636.-eCEx%ca6c@bitmessage.ch> <20180903180401.u4MVs%ca6c@bitmessage.ch> <20180903181133.GB81368@wopr> <20180903185616.ZnkRk%ca6c@bitmessage.ch> From: Andy Kosela Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 11:34:45 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _WBP7m3W4B2S0-uoGoChC9ByB5w Message-ID: To: ron minnich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004d18f60575085e2e" Subject: Re: [TUHS] cat -v and other complaints X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "tuhs@tuhs.org" Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000004d18f60575085e2e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tuesday, September 4, 2018, ron minnich wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 11:11 PM Andy Kosela > wrote: > >> >> That was one of the main reasons I disliked Plan9. It embraced the >> "windows interface" trend of the mid 80s. >> >> >> > well, you can believe that, and I can't stop you, but it's wrong. > Can you elaborate more on your point of view? There has been a slow shift in the way we use computer interfaces and the start of the "windows computing" revolution certainly happened around mid 80s with companies like Apple, Microsoft or Commodore developing their own version of GUI (which goes back to Xerox PARC of course). Unix received X Window System from MIT in 1984. At the time people thought that GUI is the best and most useful interface for the new era and text terminal computing is about to die pretty soon. Well it took at least 10 more years to happen and the introduction of World Wide Web and Windows 95 certainly help solidify it. When Plan 9 was created in the mid-late 80s exactly those ideas circulated. Nothing comes from nothing, everything has its historical context. In the late 80s in order to "innovate" it was natural to think that abandoning text terminals is a "progress". Unix was born in the different era. Same with the original IBM PC. That is why they revolve around pure text interface. I'm just glad that text mode survived and it is still available even on modern PC's. But most kids these days don't even know what it is... They have GUIs everywhere, from their smartphones to their laptops. It is a very sad state of things when people more and more abandon text computing for the image based computing. I agree with Kurt that we are already in the Information Technology ice age. General purpose pure text based computing is slowly becoming just a retro hobby. --Andy --0000000000004d18f60575085e2e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:


On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 11:11 PM Andy Kosela <akosela@andykosela.= com> wrote:

= That was one of the main reasons I disliked Plan9.=C2=A0 It embraced the &q= uot;windows interface" trend of the mid 80s.

=

well, you can believe that, and = I can't stop you, but it's wrong.

Can you elaborate more on your point of view?
There has been a slow shift in the way we use computer interfa= ces and the start of the "windows computing" revolution certainly= happened around mid 80s with companies like Apple, Microsoft or Commodore = developing their own version of GUI (which goes back to Xerox PARC of cours= e).=C2=A0 Unix received X Window System from MIT in 1984.

At the time people thought that GUI is the best and most useful int= erface for the new era and text terminal computing is about to die pretty s= oon.=C2=A0 Well it took at least 10 more years to happen and the introducti= on of World Wide Web and Windows 95 certainly help solidify it.
<= br>
When Plan 9 was created in the mid-late 80s exactly those ide= as circulated.=C2=A0 Nothing comes from nothing, everything has its histori= cal context.=C2=A0 In the late 80s in order to "innovate" it was = natural to think that abandoning text terminals is a "progress".<= /div>

Unix was born in the different era.=C2=A0 Same wit= h the original IBM PC.=C2=A0 That is why they revolve around pure text inte= rface.=C2=A0 I'm just glad that text mode survived and it is still avai= lable even on modern PC's.=C2=A0 But most kids these days don't eve= n know what it is...=C2=A0 They have GUIs everywhere, from their smartphone= s to their laptops.

It is a very sad state of thin= gs when people more and more abandon text computing for the image based com= puting.=C2=A0 I agree with Kurt that we are already in the Information Tech= nology ice age.

General purpose pure text based co= mputing is slowly becoming just a retro hobby.

--A= ndy
--0000000000004d18f60575085e2e--