From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5165 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2022 07:39:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Feb 2022 07:39:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ED2F49D4BC; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 17:39:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26218951B5; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 17:38:50 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="UwUOs7r2"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DCF1E951B5; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 17:38:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com (mail-ua1-f49.google.com [209.85.222.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3777395192 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2022 17:38:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id b37so9398839uad.12 for ; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:38:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=J4qpYoPFgZHpUijXqmQvsmDdJGnfR90+8m1PzCVReCs=; b=UwUOs7r2Ihk5YxtnKRmF5lMpUxt6SqVbrHR/2IZGe1ldeKFyW9RKTST/4ZBGK4C5M0 2Q2fSMzSCuE2a7oujCe7v7ewZZxx6bhp+3BJ3vsrF7YqZ4hdhlcHoFGAS+Pz5xMvgbiN ul9mQRjNgD8jwIGXUAk9i4aL8H6JzQdt465ldFGRshHDNbGZFooQKH5XO4BsB3pw5z3u zZ0yjUZ1WyHAuqat5s+D7JDs9bw43Se6yIdzcL1nQkAZwfXUjGu29kLsgKwNFW190tbC R+bI2H8oFJ4jfbDO9mshLrajF7RwYO7CAo+ZtEOotABeS1AveYceifZZk+18STaxbDU0 8umg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=J4qpYoPFgZHpUijXqmQvsmDdJGnfR90+8m1PzCVReCs=; b=VD/Q2/ARgGgSaDvLY3To++RUi4o8Qc20VRMQrXT4YTHncVGwgJy48jV6ZYieiChxJG COHAp9U5u3pcbwlI5rEYyHLWY8Tb/isyQfbebQS2uZ9usU6YGo0faKrk+ZsjFlQRa2o8 Crq2PvUFD3F9YVGq3K6fEAoETynWJwG718oEft7V9oZ4JT0/3rakJLgJVsVk6d1UhwY9 xBj+CN0QTLwh7tZoDyZNJg5Ed687l/XSHJmBryGIiAYkmslXr/MPw4/K90TbX6kRl4Ot IZoeIDtlvdJgvBmGLJZKvKCYv0KTTd+rE6VcCQ5IJqOOtoEqkPfHsp1WLgF+CxFk4TbZ AKaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533iPJ2+ZfaYzQPpmT5x5MZttKr1bFSK6o0Yl46wIhqwauo5DP+I xLfIbEj0lGdMgXKtjoOQ041zZ20JZuZS/l5Lp0DX8Eus X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwpD05kK3zPOGyMq/WIAF2EUZaJqMQ6vkzfKYc13vkZ9zz/kakfTjfIkJiyWk8gNoFr7TtxgF1CTxVDgqe8BVI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:81c:: with SMTP id g28mr405101vsb.46.1643960325119; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:38:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a67:b40d:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Feb 2022 23:38:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <202202011537.211FbYSe017204@freefriends.org> <20220201155225.5A9541FB21@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <202202020747.2127lTTh005669@freefriends.org> <7C19F93B-4F21-4BB1-A064-0307D3568DB7@cfcl.com> <1nFWmo-1Gn-00@marmaro.de> From: Andy Kosela Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 08:38:44 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: BVLulx3L-BP7lJ5ixuXoGFOUR7A Message-ID: To: Adam Thornton Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] more about Brian... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2/4/22, Adam Thornton wrote: > It feels like the tide has turned from Go to Rust. I speak Go relatively > fluently but have never used Rust in anger. Do the august personages on > this > list have opinions about Rust? People who generally have tastes consonant > with mine tell me I'd like Rust. > > Although a bit outdated, I stand by what I wrote about Go several (six?) > years ago: https://athornton.github.io/go-it-mostly-doesnt-suck 2010 Go != 2022 Go I used to be a big proponent of Go back in 2010. The language definitely felt fresh and minimal back then when Java and C++ were dominant on the market. And it definitely felt like the authors of Go wanted to replace them . It made sense in the Google environment, but very soon people realized that you can't write everything in Go. Garbage collector is cool but actually it prevents you from writing kernel or performance critical code, e.g. games. But Go became popular anyway. A lot of substandard PHP and New Age programmers started using it and it showed. In the beginning the humble authors of Go preferred minimal variable names and less than 80 char lines. In time all this turned into Java-like long, expressive variable names and extremely long lines. I really hate lines longer than 80 chars...in any language. They are really hard to focus as you need to constantly move your eyes from left to right. The same phenomenon happens with very wide browser windows. And due to popular demand they started to add on to the language features: modules, generics, etc.. The language still feels a lot less bloated than C++, but IMHO plain old C just feels more natural and minimal. And because I still program on a lot of old retro systems today I returned back to C. You can use C on pretty much everything -- from 8-bit machines to amd64. You can't say the same about Go. And Rust? If Go was trying to reinvent C, Rust definitely feels like it is trying to reinvent C++... --Andy