From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C957922F84 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:36:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840F242A7F; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:36:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7100542A44 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:36:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a75131ce948so537510666b.2 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:36:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1720020962; x=1720625762; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QHqMT8gRBLZ/TwoKdMDkgAtD1qhe4tN7P4zQh5TQO3s=; b=eZ4pxuwMalgSfXg5v3FhNuvvRo4a6u6Kk8OtPYPqaW5a5uBQAZU/09OBsyROvoapo5 ogLrcFoOmmkkvXmLwlWazX8ySIZLgG2FUCdvjAItOqDRqKQARWoz2lzRtOsdgMD7fkXO od0gHnK1+Ohp1E0kQICx4KioQXwCol4TbjGuOHpkcFWpRABHjCDxECR+P0+sUjO6yWcB 8mvnTMk5qg4DhOZKo+oe+I1IBQ5XzlCE4R6vN9P1HoAPpTEZxo7N2Dz11B5OBFuJEpok yHq8j8Ggi0z6ChnEACv/waAIxJPDZWCrmncq/ql5+eSxQXQsCc1qDZyMmImWOuD2rlxG PhhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720020962; x=1720625762; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=QHqMT8gRBLZ/TwoKdMDkgAtD1qhe4tN7P4zQh5TQO3s=; b=Thx0CXx9PhN1KhxrFqiKACBhLzJ6CRFv70F50BCp6D0oq9SqEBw3pPJaCqVo3sbiiz iXoJd7RY3swJx/+sZ+K6dce9pJUtpsxPtaOC9+/VuuVOSIjWL4eiVlz1GvWvYJCjOaey JrM2olNiTy4qJkyrIYNAFEjT8axtozGL1o6Ywu0riXGNxrQmkrxg4XqcPng4dYxmGFzj kGksTCrjQ2a694/bWxovYiHT7KkNCyj/p607/hPkR5G5SshsXqr23KkMQNJdQUWCLC3I Ufu0HApgVznRCC2OjtVnl0Dolrf5MHk00U2NpTnCe4cvC886vOLjexOfluUBveFOP/W0 YwPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxGDJqr+IN0Bj0/xXyk1VjuYmBKhzqHJwYUXSJuJQKV/0Nnl/uE nSkbgiceBhqbMMYT7VyjGlJvAvpuoqO6kIqbzssl7wjIQknYUal33cpD5KCIOhJa4/OmU0aoeld ycRwhH/V+TTKKW5wiMKMY3J7ffpUfsA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGB5bGZqDlOZ+aaCQ9Z7VevmYlDDBmCZP4N5ZDYkOxHtLZpiPsN9fBbl4WAyWPZdfsc4by4SrdWa/BjXOYIZzM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1ca0:b0:a75:100a:7966 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a7514419725mr1044579066b.1.1720020962006; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: From: Marc Donner Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 11:35:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: Vincenzo Nicosia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000725fcd061c59960d" Message-ID-Hash: DJRGL2444WJOP6RI6PWSFYQO47BAV2RY X-Message-ID-Hash: DJRGL2444WJOP6RI6PWSFYQO47BAV2RY X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000725fcd061c59960d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There have been case study courses here and there over the years. I would argue that Lyons=E2=80=99s book of sources was the text for one. An old cr= ony, Ed Smith, used to teach a comparative programming languages course back in the day. And I know someone at NYU taught a course where people studied the source code of a variety of utilities. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:27=E2=80=AFAM Vincenzo Nicosia wrote: > On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 02:51:01PM +1000, sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au wrote: > > I???ve never heard of a Computer Science or Software Engineering progra= m > > that included a ???case study??? component, especially for Software > Development & Projects. > > > > MBA programs feature an emphasis on real-world ???case studies???, to > learn from successes & failures, > > to give students the possibility of not falling into the same traps. > > > > Creating Unix V6, because it profoundly changed computing & development= , > > would seem an obvious Case Study for many aspects of Software, Coding > and Projects. > > > > I personally believe that the comparison of "mainstream" software > development principles and the birth and development of projects like > Unix, Linux, or any other major successful free software project is > fundamentally flawed. > > The programmers considered as "fungible workforce" by mainstream > software engineering and project management theories are *paid* to to > their programming job, and they mostly have to carry that job over > working on prescribed objectives and timelines which have been decided > by somebody else, managers who know nothing at all about software > development. Personal interest in the project, passion, motivation, > curiosity, creative power, sense of beauty, the joy of belonging to a > community of likeminded people, are never part of the equation, at any > point. > > Remove one of those latter ingredients from Unix, Linux, or any other > major successful free/open source software project, and that project > would have not existed, at all. > > I think it would be terribly misleading to teach young CS students that > software projects should be managed "as Unix v6 came to life". They will > never, ever find anything even close to that environment in a > professional workplace. We should tell them that some of the most > beautiful software projects ever crafted by humans did not come out of > the "professionalism churches" that the overwhelming majority of > software companies are nowadays, based on the blind application of > "mainstream" software development and project management principles, > according to which they (the CS majors) are just "as fungible and > replaceable as a chair, or a wallpaper". That would be only true and > fair to tell them. > > I don't know if that would be of any avail to them, but at least we do > not mislead them in thinking that their paid programming time will > actually change the world in any meaningful way..... > > My2cents > > Enzo Nicosia > > -- > --000000000000725fcd061c59960d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There have been case study courses here and there over th= e years.=C2=A0 I would argue that Lyons=E2=80=99s book of sources was the t= ext for one.=C2=A0 An old crony, Ed Smith, used to teach a comparative prog= ramming languages course back in the day.=C2=A0 And I know someone at NYU t= aught a course where people studied the source code of a variety of utiliti= es.

<= br>

On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:27=E2=80=AFAM Vincenzo Nicosia <katolaz@freaknet.org> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 02:51:01PM +1000, sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au<= /a> wrote:
> I???ve never heard of a Computer Science or Software Engineering progr= am
> that included a ???case study??? component, especially for Software De= velopment & Projects.
>
> MBA programs feature an emphasis on real-world ???case studies???, to = learn from successes & failures,
> to give students the possibility of not falling into the same traps. <= br> >
> Creating Unix V6, because it profoundly changed computing & develo= pment,
> would seem an obvious Case Study for many aspects of Software, Coding = and Projects.
>

I personally believe that the comparison of "mainstream" software=
development principles and the birth and development of projects like
Unix, Linux, or any other major successful free software project is
fundamentally flawed.

The programmers considered as "fungible workforce" by mainstream<= br> software engineering and project management theories are *paid* to to
their programming job, and they mostly have to carry that job over
working on prescribed objectives and timelines which have been decided
by somebody else, managers who know nothing at all about software
development. Personal interest in the project, passion, motivation,
curiosity, creative power, sense of beauty, the joy of belonging to a
community of likeminded people, are never part of the equation, at any
point.

Remove one of those latter ingredients from Unix, Linux, or any other
major successful free/open source software project, and that project
would have not existed, at all.

I think it would be terribly misleading to teach young CS students that
software projects should be managed "as Unix v6 came to life". Th= ey will
never, ever find anything even close to that environment in a
professional workplace. We should tell them that some of the most
beautiful software projects ever crafted by humans did not come out of
the "professionalism churches" that the overwhelming majority of<= br> software companies are nowadays, based on=C2=A0 the blind application of "mainstream" software development and project management principl= es,
according to which they (the CS majors) are just "as fungible and
replaceable as a chair, or a wallpaper". That would be only true and fair to tell them.

I don't know if that would be of any avail to them, but at least we do<= br> not mislead them in thinking that their paid programming time will
actually change the world in any meaningful way.....

My2cents

Enzo Nicosia

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