From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8847 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2022 19:44:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Oct 2022 19:44:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB3040EEC; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 05:44:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f52.google.com (mail-oa1-f52.google.com [209.85.160.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6554A40EEB for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 05:44:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1326637be6eso17135462fac.13 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:44:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8VMY5lTPMCTX/vLIII349QQM7KE4WqbxRlrHwduxpec=; b=p3JUkHAlTFkq641I/gf5p0fBtpG6lninFFhKjeJurIiXJxQ3ZBIKgw8IjF3MK1rON9 LOMe2YIOyMyEsA0VQpUVaH1uaNVb3jIVF7HRPYJjlVwb0lVqxc6faFlc3sRmZ9bG1mIH X0vXiIZcJ49fK/J05LCh4uEZvBbstYH7JPF6wiVNGBanIZkvIwvoKRjd9aLF+8ZZKqXE h1/211ui1VLaQfukE/bIzGULxLwOhihqcnetvtBE69iRqojEecRjNVOIfcQXEl4C5EFv UVlCe6VDq6t8ABqxxZ+Kw0dqzlUonmUj2qKcJpCQHcfH9S4UyDWjc/aAr2ChOLmmD0/b Eq+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=8VMY5lTPMCTX/vLIII349QQM7KE4WqbxRlrHwduxpec=; b=qiQL5vpfQO6jCJmeWBc2hEfYHAnk/gO+1Zr/ELtyONsTqOc8YPoSpcRU+T0jpeZAoB sZ8ZRgRJM1rtIh1ZmkoG2gDmI947vXiKB6vm11/DXTBpZ5LZQot9y243CwE6VHwXtJBf +2xorTI23ek4qQR6fJZFYlOpU7QMr8BSyems7j235Z0V08GgwwOvcGfb37dBlNpyCNFM NFyQvRiflutkwT2CPu4alMqHxfdziWRcwJhG2f9KNrvdEgWXHE50hdVLrdak55rJli7t qt0W6m51hxq/MSmqPu6Slyz/qK+FVPujHi9fwJKvakV5Uh6v64NoDS7oFIZZrFhahaOS W1tQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1xNLwMkt4U6BxtCF5H8X1hHdtACcZrdy4onnbJlIZtdzLqC2sh CRsWbifpglvM1whq6lKZ0BbenB6Eg5t1TuPvNQE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM59jDejicSnmxv5d1EzeJdid2ryaAMrF5HiFMBHlsJbcc7uNbG/2Jk2lHjr3r+xfhjFMfwDTAwG/09hgTZxrm4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:96ac:b0:136:c1aa:2790 with SMTP id o44-20020a05687096ac00b00136c1aa2790mr489506oaq.102.1665517410142; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:43:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <992562BA-E21F-4542-A50B-6CFE8F7ACE86@planet.nl> <20221011134842.GA11780@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Marc Donner Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 15:43:19 -0400 Message-ID: To: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000994f3d05eac77d14" Message-ID-Hash: XEGKN62BBHPGJ2DO4SXS75EZ5SGZN7O5 X-Message-ID-Hash: XEGKN62BBHPGJ2DO4SXS75EZ5SGZN7O5 X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Paul Ruizendaal , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Re.: Princeton's "Unix: An Oral History": who was in the team in "The Attic"? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000994f3d05eac77d14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A friend of mine at IBM Research told me the following experience from his early career. He was hired to join the MVS development team in Poughkeepsie (or Endicott?) right out of school. He got the "new kid" assignment - maintaining the JCL interpreter. 500K lines of H Assembler (might have been G Assembler ... disremember). The job was to take bug tickets, analyze them, and respond with either a fix or a rejection. After a bit of this he thinks to himself, "Self, this is a programming language, but badly implemented in assembler with lots of copy-paste crap." He had studied computer science in college, so he knew something about compiler implementation. So he builds a set of parser tables using what he learned from the Dragon Book and implements a new JCL interpreter in PL/1 (or PL/S?). About 20K LOC. The new JCL interpreter is faster, though that doesn't really matter. More importantly, it also closes hundreds of bugs that arose from the fact that many of subcommands had suboptions with variant implementations, even though they were *supposed* to be the same suboption. So, come annual review time he gets the most negative possible score. Why? Because he produced -480K lines of code. So he transferred to the Research Division where his skills were more valued and where I met him. ===== nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:00 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:49 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 01:15:38PM +0200, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: >> > There is also another anecdote involving Atkinson. At some point all >> Apple programmers had to file a weekly report with how many lines of code >> they wrote that week. After a productive week of refactoring and >> optimising, he filed a report saying "minus 2,000 lines". >> >> We bonused people for that. >> > > I love commits like this, thought it wasn't refactoring so much as > deleting obsolete code... > > commit c09981f1422ef0d44042dacc5d1265392fba39f1 > Author: Warner Losh > Date: Thu Dec 30 20:56:09 2021 -0700 > > mips: Remove sys/mips > > Remove sys/mips as the next step of decomissioning mips from the tree. > Remove mips special cases from the kernel make files. Remove the mips > specific linker scripts. > > Sponsored by: Netflix > ... > 594 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 134,562 deletions(-) > --000000000000994f3d05eac77d14 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A friend of mine at IBM Research told me the fo= llowing experience from his early career.

He was hired to join the MVS development=C2=A0team in Poughkeepsie (or = Endicott?)=C2=A0right=C2=A0out of school.

He got the "new kid" assignment - maintaining the JCL interpr= eter.=C2=A0 500K lines of H Assembler (might have been G Assembler ... disr= emember).

The job was to take bug tick= ets, analyze them, and respond with either a fix or a rejection.

After a bit of this he thinks to himself, "= Self, this is a programming language, but badly implemented in assembler wi= th lots of copy-paste crap."=C2=A0 He had studied computer science in = college, so he knew something about compiler implementation.

So he builds a set of parser tables using what he learned from the D= ragon Book and implements a new JCL interpreter in PL/1 (or PL/S?).=C2=A0 A= bout 20K LOC.

The new JCL interpreter= is faster, though that doesn't really=C2=A0matter.=C2=A0 More importan= tly, it also closes hundreds of bugs that arose from the fact that many of = subcommands had suboptions with variant implementations, even though they w= ere *supposed* to be the same suboption.

So, come annual review time he gets the most negative possible score.=C2= =A0 Why?=C2=A0 Because he produced -480K lines of code.
So he transferred to the Research Division where his skil= ls were more valued and where I met him.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:00 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:


On Tue, Oct 11= , 2022 at 7:49 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 01:15:38PM +0200, Paul Ruizend= aal via TUHS wrote:
> There is also another anecdote involving Atkinson. At some point all A= pple programmers had to file a weekly report with how many lines of code th= ey wrote that week. After a productive week of refactoring and optimising, = he filed a report saying "minus 2,000 lines".

We bonused people for that.

I love comm= its like this, thought it wasn't refactoring so much as deleting obsole= te code...

commit c09981f1422ef0d44042dacc5d1265392fba3= 9f1
Author: Warner Losh <imp@FreeBSD.org>
Date: =C2=A0 Thu Dec = 30 20:56:09 2021 -0700

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mips: Remove sys/mips

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Remove sys/mips as the next step of decomissioning mips from = the tree.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Remove mips special cases from the kernel make f= iles. Remove the mips
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specific linker scripts.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sponsored by: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Netflix
...
=C2=A0594 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 134,562 dele= tions(-)=C2=A0
--000000000000994f3d05eac77d14--