From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BAE2203D for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2024 10:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D55428D1; Thu, 8 Aug 2024 18:46:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-x635.google.com (mail-ej1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83757427E3 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2024 18:46:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a7a83a968ddso81884466b.0 for ; Thu, 08 Aug 2024 01:46:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1723106801; x=1723711601; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hnOpc/SF0+Vs0e3TvK/rT3mqNBIi7SQ83J55O1OVPQo=; b=UsisE0CjcZc91g40YQ46vK5cSN05XBySMxR/GgXQeR0TDdV+NlOAFfs8d6tntwYnDS feMJmiETmJqeLmgb6kMHxecKNip238C1mnr/CUNXD5B6/xHMMlWMemX5Q3PQ7nqOgn5J 0msNE/NuZw43hOqgE8RbUOYutHl4JvodC2AtYlJKXoX9nod+oMETR6YEsmq2pj5wfK8C lzee6M5+rZJIYqKWqfXgrMyHdDRBx3YkGlu9r1HHcpew6MLmzaMJxxsKbYiJt38w+cyP d6v4Ju4JPmoRVeFteNNpODr7nZvNKVREAdfZDJKN0P4cefYa06Y/qTmtFqe9HM+E6snp mMXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1723106801; x=1723711601; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=hnOpc/SF0+Vs0e3TvK/rT3mqNBIi7SQ83J55O1OVPQo=; b=xF0dNEfO5roaLeb33O/A7efzAC7pmYSG659prFUeGCtJ+azCIfUDBfoMm9d5vsd8cc HuSeKinL2QKWB8uOf98Sd9nM5d/poP8rLs7HVBb+0TuOMkX01aBDP2Ga4W/b07OpyTAf WSCuZnn8wpxri7VgkxA926ES2M7DqhUNGcF9x+MSDYAph3OjkA00GuDxInkreVebAto1 Aq7PjVf0lSE6NijxY22ci1bRJVjoktlhbCKa3bzB4zzcdiY2Dmm234OkOLFv4uWHKylK icRRaeHFvfVN9MNtNafBNnxWdag+YtAdWHrhzVwt4D/6rB9i4SBZxExrkPOW36HfUBgs uDWQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVu44b9iaelt7LaNk0izLkgF8X/j7Dn3aDxGy+R7m6RibjRcn6q9zSpX8xSZ+Uh5e5d/VRzFjCBhhEzUbt7 X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxUUkrUl4vVcMmBDJuAshYfKZafFKBh4KDjdGFOpGvexgsWHIli Cvjx33jWvh/Sjcx7AV6v56C6jBVsb2KG5xidb7KIJoobmtoMzIKAjPoDspLYTNv3yiOzuW5z7Qs 5gyoDJEQgP9dooCGSz6PenqPuTmU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHGeKpb3zvBLy7Kx6/+b2UiIeMstuIA6R1fAtqTuckuvZzWC7z2JlJkHwTTfJGqNQYRwK1aoYy5rIio20d/BZ0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:ee84:b0:a7a:a4be:2f92 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a8090c2a336mr79646166b.13.1723106800025; Thu, 08 Aug 2024 01:46:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202408060639.4766dk6x480855@freefriends.org> <202408061809.476I9mJK528152@freefriends.org> <3Gs5oFUWInK1A8py_MnyO58pLGhczbTJrehgdJrgP-BxK4bVJd1hMo84s2Pbn7ulnr34c85DO-DzWFjxJmRUQdfHH2c4iAtQysuPbDPrri8=@protonmail.com> <20240808035655.GE4511@mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20240808035655.GE4511@mit.edu> From: Marc Donner Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 04:46:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Theodore Ts'o" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b9c939061f2810f2" Message-ID-Hash: 6XLIMEVTSP4PE3UUNA3B426KJWUXHTYV X-Message-ID-Hash: 6XLIMEVTSP4PE3UUNA3B426KJWUXHTYV X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Other POSIX Candidates? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000b9c939061f2810f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To summarize this discussion, if I may, the unifying driver was developer friendliness, with all of its deeper implications, that drove the process. Reflecting on this theme, I note that MSFT focused on developers in the golden age of Windows. Some of it was investment in powerful IDEs but an awful lot of it was stuff like their MVP program that created community as well as offering participants some differentiation in their competition for customers. Looking back, the community-building aspects attracted me in the early days= . Marc =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 11:57=E2=80=AFPM Theodore Ts'o wrote= : > On Wed, Aug 07, 2024 at 06:25:12PM -0700, Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > Relevant to Clem's point, it seems like the iBCS > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Binary_Compatibility_Standard > served to > > try and provide some uniformity for ISVs providing binary software on a > > variety of x86 UNIX. The bit it says about Linux having support is tru= e > > too, I have some old boxed Linux distros and that is one of the feature= s > > they advertise. > > Around 1994, MIT purchased a site license for a proprietary > spreadsheet program for SCO because we knew it would work on Linux > (and we had a lot of Linux usage on campus; we had ported a good chunk > of the Project Athena infrastruture, including the Andrew File System > to Linux). > > An amusing anecdote; I worked with one of their primary software > developers so we could get a custom build of the software that would > only work if the IP address of the machine was 18.X.Y.Z, since MIT had > class A network. This person would eventually become one of the > founders of Red Hat, and I told him that we were purchasing it > intended to run it on Linux. He told me that this would be perfectly > fine, because he had compiled the iBCS binary on Linux. Turns out the > development environment on Linux was far more developer friendly (at > least in his eyes) than SCO, so he was building a SCO/iBCS binary on > Linux. Since he had done his basic automated regression testing on > Linux with iBCS emulation, and only later sent the binary to do QA on > the SCO client, he was quite confident that it work just _fine_ on our > student's Linux desktops. > > - Ted > --000000000000b9c939061f2810f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To summarize this discussion, if I may, the unifying driv= er was developer friendliness, with all of its deeper implications, that dr= ove the process.

Reflect= ing on this theme, I note that MSFT focused on developers in the golden age= of Windows.=C2=A0 Some of it was investment in powerful IDEs but an awful = lot of it was stuff like their MVP program that created community as well a= s offering participants some differentiation in their competition for custo= mers.

Looking back, the = community-building aspects attracted me in the early days.

Marc


On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 11:57=E2=80=AFPM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 07, 2024 at 06:25:12PM -0700, Kevin Bowling wrote: >
> Relevant to Clem's point, it seems like the iBCS
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/= Intel_Binary_Compatibility_Standard served to
> try and provide some uniformity for ISVs providing binary software on = a
> variety of x86 UNIX.=C2=A0 The bit it says about Linux having support = is true
> too, I have some old boxed Linux distros and that is one of the featur= es
> they advertise.

Around 1994, MIT purchased a site license for a proprietary
spreadsheet program for SCO because we knew it would work on Linux
(and we had a lot of Linux usage on campus; we had ported a good chunk
of the Project Athena infrastruture, including the Andrew File System
to Linux).

An amusing anecdote; I worked with one of their primary software
developers so we could get a custom build of the software that would
only work if the IP address of the machine was 18.X.Y.Z, since MIT had
class A network.=C2=A0 This person would eventually become one of the
founders of Red Hat, and I told him that we were purchasing it
intended to run it on Linux.=C2=A0 He told me that this would be perfectly<= br> fine, because he had compiled the iBCS binary on Linux.=C2=A0 Turns out the=
development environment on Linux was far more developer friendly (at
least in his eyes) than SCO, so he was building a SCO/iBCS binary on
Linux.=C2=A0 Since he had done his basic automated regression testing on Linux with iBCS emulation, and only later sent the binary to do QA on
the SCO client, he was quite confident that it work just _fine_ on our
student's Linux desktops.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Ted
--000000000000b9c939061f2810f2--