From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15465 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2023 18:01:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jan 2023 18:01:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E3E42484; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:01:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f180.google.com (mail-oi1-f180.google.com [209.85.167.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE30342483 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:01:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f180.google.com with SMTP id p185so2357739oif.2 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:01:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=R8glJu2i5RsqULxVeATHbfyqAAtA1ySbHVa4ell+jXM=; b=mnq1PHcorTTn/80JXvY77li0eJQlb6se2PF5CTPeLfMoFbiaDQxUswY2DExjufNVJ9 rMwqfrkW+2+xEv7L1jxkrdaiOcEzYwsPzulYeKJEa6ZPKBylpqVYuwCZPU9cvJOdqVvt Tr2YCJfiE2GH78aj9EZzFE/tNa0Frr9soajcSLaeQxBtDk/aW6B1kzqcSm4zsFCcqTLW YwRIDAbZ+XXIRNHhsTK7z5+I1JZy/yHPUp9blKYWvozvsB672jQQPy4v7OXqdnnSu7Hz uzaFmx2vGOTG1TLW0jzm0ekVMv9kgqugNxI//jIugjMn1HGDH/MZ/hKVVjkmu9zonHOb 128A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=R8glJu2i5RsqULxVeATHbfyqAAtA1ySbHVa4ell+jXM=; b=K5kc1PWE6AnVZg77nfTHLP81KLVzXD6Pyv00Esu2tqztLQDZ4/2x0lkMUjSKZTaWfE ekQyzCigvManLNz4BHrhS7Todlj/P7wXSXDAI61L1tAfnNuzxrBNX5YupARTNqJI+dI9 LBLiHMt7wExTDaDImhq4Azzmro6SwGTArAl55jpIP5LGOBje91fwOJtM4Vn646b7f68i C1AaHvchBbr+EcS4VyoTqAbmoUzRw4ejIzgfYGkCKJFMzKkIiI8a6vkmb0Lx7Oa0Rrs7 U/c2TODcE6q7HpUnoMx5mYXjOiFb73oFCDuv78o1CrqLdAKqk4rwWb7AbQUM2WU04348 UbJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqUIFSd2Pe/bvsEh6uYwoXv7F+9FI6VF2r7VQUdTFutkUUp2cVS ALlUVeGOYkD7omYV+99cVeyTbjK5settemAsrI69GzJ6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsDM4OLYwAmURX0hWfYNX/SlgAv988QqVh/BFHPMUvcJuZCFiTI+uk7sdErDzY41srsUpmokFoRt0Q4BhN4iqo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1b2c:b0:36b:2778:cec6 with SMTP id bx44-20020a0568081b2c00b0036b2778cec6mr637978oib.102.1674151214863; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:00:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230119175012.E7E7E18C074@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20230119175012.E7E7E18C074@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Marc Donner Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000765b4b05f2a1b4fb" Message-ID-Hash: KRKZHPO4GYPIBNIUOSTMKCYJRXO7JOVA X-Message-ID-Hash: KRKZHPO4GYPIBNIUOSTMKCYJRXO7JOVA X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Managers/architects (was: AIX moved into maintainance mode) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000765b4b05f2a1b4fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all three, from personal observation. My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960. ===== nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa wrote: > > From: Larry McVoy > > > At least 30 years ago I said "He's good programmer, a good architect, > > and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before". > > Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him > operating > in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some > insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager > (although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th > floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took > over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on > all three - he could manage me! :-) > > Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I > know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay > - > not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to > manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though. > > Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a > architect. I > think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the > variable > size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in > TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that > day; > I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I'd > been > there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior alternative - > 'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.) > > Noel > > PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers > from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are: > > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the Multics > System Development" > https://multicians.org/managerial.html > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- the > first seven years" > https://multicians.org/f7y.html > --000000000000765b4b05f2a1b4fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all thre= e, from personal observation.

My guess= is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still programmed .= .. I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to implement his= thesis program (Sketchpad) in about=C2=A01960.

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > From: Lar= ry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com= >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > At least 30 years ago I said "He's good program= mer, a good architect,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > and a good manager. I've never seen that in one pers= on before".

Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him operatin= g
in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some
insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager
(although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th
floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took=
over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on<= br> all three - he could manage me! :-)

Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I<= br> know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay = -
not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had = to
manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.

Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a architect.= I
think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the variabl= e
size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in
TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that da= y;
I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I= 'd been
there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior altern= ative -
'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Noel

PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are:

=C2=A0 - F. J.=C2=A0 Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of th= e Multics System Development"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://multicians.org/managerial.= html
=C2=A0 - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics --= the first seven years"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://multicians.org/f7y.html
--000000000000765b4b05f2a1b4fb--