From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25118 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2023 08:14:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Mar 2023 08:14:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB09413C5; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:14:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-x22d.google.com (mail-oi1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33884413BE for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:14:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id bk32so3198319oib.10 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 01:14:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1679040876; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rMUfFt3tPfkKAj3WYSwL/av0pfTUJTojKm/wLfGJukc=; b=Tx/nzkQLLhZFbKxXmxu1aHrTsnYdyNapzV42Sh9OLFz8kmv7AEpjcF15BTeDTHY7sQ hb0llf2XM3MompkKB1VEvzKNiVPgUoG2VrmCwLs+gyx5U4oQJp9JCuRtQW/rP9nZAClk BkEpH8GnK0fj0Y2IOolz1M1YiS9UnRO1P2vPh1PnJTap94o7qWSOhRM/3ezkV5s6iRut a13LWYURxlVzDFGUUmF4UvjehHuaqiLqLf1KgQyHnVImb0lC/jD3jedprvQLYwnyS7qK E2q4itzHE4Np78JQ4EkZksLQBIwlmXeS69aIJtbeHo/+JKz4KSxpmm8i/BmeJphot1nA in8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679040876; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rMUfFt3tPfkKAj3WYSwL/av0pfTUJTojKm/wLfGJukc=; b=mepv2x0KCB4jYScfM8hOj+nuuXvxMenFBxOaCHgqzsLul3iTpzpvJLa2EGruoRRul7 8M0UYhamTrsPiwJ+kF3jxG86Jbv7H+R2ziCh5BNAoGGIV3Tq5PJVvBACzoOKbq68Fz43 5RuLgg32kYa9SKcoFcbqG5IVtnLCiINCFqI5tZqXrvYBXrqnqqlMVgAc0Q8UDqePLrPB TcEyK0j9u6qbbdU4Kz7ONbTL0seheFnDx4tyn7BRQRhM6+xDyvFsfTAg2srghrsaZa72 FHFaZ2sr9XdKxt6pkhWPwRnVIpN0c5rB6D1jIBMnJsba9PJX6IChwtEZv7OXWjcSk2UM 7u2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKX7ws6Fdb2De70/uxChfcLqMUh3ZW5dKmmxidfQnRuJQR1xUU9U 2HEvb+Ej4HVbt3BpfoMTQ1ElR72oW+GM4G2U7kk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/8DmvtbePnnKUHMCF12gQzHyAA8nTnnmjZ9RLgxGZnIrm85+DZGt0fqHAJ03sxw+O/sT3PgLcJBTw/YAh0ZsE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:6709:0:b0:384:253:642d with SMTP id z9-20020aca6709000000b003840253642dmr3050881oix.3.1679040875587; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 01:14:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <78FE1F5F-7408-4BB0-8D2E-62AA00465774@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <78FE1F5F-7408-4BB0-8D2E-62AA00465774@planet.nl> From: Marc Donner Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 04:14:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f3ed5705f7142aee" Message-ID-Hash: CWCBDTJLPUAIIHZFIUEUGBPD6LMDK6VN X-Message-ID-Hash: CWCBDTJLPUAIIHZFIUEUGBPD6LMDK6VN X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: virtual consoles / Alt-Fx List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000f3ed5705f7142aee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AIX 3 had virtual consoles back in the early 1980s. The Mathnet crowd at IBM Research (my gang) sort of hated them, though not as much as SMIT and the ODM, because they were implemented at too low a level and didn=E2=80=99= t provide any real way for window managers to leverage their facilities. On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:13 PM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: > Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a major use case for > early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90=E2=80=99s= for this > purpose. > > According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before > that with concurrent CP/M. > > Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual > consoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983= ), > but not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a > mention of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988. > > No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix o= r > early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sen= se > with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS > either. > > I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point. > > So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent > CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80=E2=80=99s and be= came part > of Linux in the early 90=E2=80=99s. > > Have I missed other prior art? > > > -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home --000000000000f3ed5705f7142aee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
AIX 3 had virtual consoles back in the early 1980s.=C2=A0= The Mathnet crowd at IBM Research (my gang) sort of hated them, though not= as much as SMIT and the ODM, because they were implemented at too low a le= vel and didn=E2=80=99t provide any real way for window managers to leverage= their facilities.

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:13 PM Paul Ruizendaal via = TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
<= /div>
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a= major use case for early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the= late 90=E2=80=99s for this purpose.

According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before t= hat with concurrent CP/M.

Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual co= nsoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983), b= ut not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a me= ntion of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988.

No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or = early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sense= with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS eit= her.

I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent CP/M= around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80=E2=80=99s and became p= art of Linux in the early 90=E2=80=99s.

Have I missed other prior art?


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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dnygeek.net
<= a href=3D"https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home" target=3D"_blank">mindthe= gapdialogs.com/home
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