From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 973 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2022 04:20:57 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Dec 2022 04:20:57 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D958A42392; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 14:20:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f54.google.com (mail-oa1-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D49442363 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 14:20:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f54.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1433ef3b61fso26672191fac.10 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2022 20:20:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=uliVjiLcXlTRmID7nAmgJHVCVDQWkd60uYi6WzSfdcA=; b=Qxwrco3Hd6wCdohStCYGHCjSNb32cBM9BltF+VVMbPMovkSOyn/ic87IHDJQ4RswTW nOWRWdaYLEbOhNfhZazZlDDZmJBoiC8KN/MREsn4D38zPv9t9yzu0KnapQPLeFMlFNjM /xSCA1pRsEH0fN5tpB7180oq+2h78mEiYrF/x3rnoKPdU7DIyc5qvPQy+Ljasd23NuQu aGMKL3eM0KNUMfxT5OtsCEQeriFpgkqnOasl0mtGzD3jiuAXXhh/Gb03P5WOtVXIL/iY 37z9Hn1riKSj8qE0RRfvVrgnDKSNWqrqdZfeU9+cFC2O1hWBqs5UKUYQyr2rvYUHNjWJ wV8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=uliVjiLcXlTRmID7nAmgJHVCVDQWkd60uYi6WzSfdcA=; b=IFyDGnGhAxOmXEBTm6pkL6RKJ87XuerZwa1e4xY6MOcj62FU4Rvp/+VaC9eSi6EoEK 1UoP8D6gBBwuGF41CaFf0ixjxCNXPslt7e1AuRH0/Us+GOotC9PuuaPlv7+eBUf2d1ug /lmWPN/tfMmFvDTj440VFxqa4mnpkj3mbLfRZtSXG4GfpOGXYtNv5zJ5aq47mMKtksZF 80fw6NjBQlJmpxEt0PIlLGeLd6jFI0ySDGUJuL7KFxFGxWgHTjDPYU4jayqz8Nt/ogKN O5j3uor8hkSeCZ4JE8TdBMmB2+FBZ9VDxc5MxxAggPAJevKEEl+D2wUWgTCHefF4aQgV uMQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2ko1aM4ov56QMm0eyftrFBcOh9aVqNtC1Iti1VL8+qLo+OedxRYD y4tE+s8+cfTy6cWxZyumfeuIZjczOHn+mllvVvQhZD3svkg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXuquiJN6wlJK2+N1qijNddMyjTd4PbgvWGk6OA/+66C/0QA0aDMmW61sE1TuJoBLDdwMuvaM92EMyrqJEFndes= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:9e82:b0:148:451:3b81 with SMTP id pu2-20020a0568709e8200b0014804513b81mr2383075oab.175.1672460372541; Fri, 30 Dec 2022 20:19:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> From: Marc Donner Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2022 23:19:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006809f605f118061c" Message-ID-Hash: A6Y37BKXEUFCKMVJRAWBBBKATHZXFEWZ X-Message-ID-Hash: A6Y37BKXEUFCKMVJRAWBBBKATHZXFEWZ X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000006809f605f118061c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fascinating. When I left IBM Research to become a grad student at CMU (1981) the Unix CS was running did not have history in the shell. It had just been introduced in VM/CMS and I loved it. I nagged the sysadmins in the CS department about it, and voila, it appeared shortly thereafter. I presume it was one of the things discussed here ported to the CMU environment. I remember that I implemented history for the shell in the PERQ, doing some nasty stuff to fit a reasonable history length in the weird Pascal they had, since Pascal didn=E2=80=99t have dynamic strings or real pointers. Marc =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 10:59 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 05:08:42PM -0700, Luther Johnson wrote: > > I use csh (tcsh) and bash at the command line, but straight Bourne shel= l > > language is preferred and recommended by many for shell programming, I > used > > to use csh for that and got bitten by all the things that I later > > discovered, those in the know had been warning about for years. Also, > > "bash-isms", syntactic sugary things in bash had led me to use them as = a > > crutch, my scripts got simpler and more to the point when I re-wrote th= em > > for Bourne shell language only. That was my experience. I think we'll > always > > have some kind of Bourne shell as the script workhorse, at last in > > Linux/Unix start-up and other blood and guts stuff. > > When I was running my engineering team I was strict about Bourne syntax > and features only. I got pushed on like crazy because "bash has this > $GOODNESS whhhhhhhy can't we use it". Because we were supporting our > product on pretty much every unix and if it wasn't HP-UX that had an > ancient /bin/sh, it was AIX or whoever. > > Over and over, I won the "straight bourne shell only" battle. So I agree= , > if you want /bin/sh to work, Bourne shell for the win. > > For a login shell, bash is my shell of choice. It's bloated but I'm > typing this on a 5 year old Lenova X1 Carbon with 16GB of memory and > 4 cores and it's fine. It was fine a 133mhz Pentium. > --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home --0000000000006809f605f118061c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fascinating.

When I left IBM Research to become a grad student at CMU (1981) the = Unix CS was running did not have history in the shell.=C2=A0 It had just be= en introduced in VM/CMS and I loved it.=C2=A0 I nagged the sysadmins in the= CS department about it, and voila, it appeared shortly thereafter.=C2=A0 I= presume it was one of the things discussed here ported to the CMU environm= ent.

I remember that I i= mplemented history for the shell in the PERQ, doing some nasty stuff to fit= a reasonable history length in the weird Pascal they had, since Pascal did= n=E2=80=99t have dynamic strings or real pointers.

Marc
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= br>
On Fri,= Dec 30, 2022 at 10:59 PM Larry McVoy <l= m@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 a= t 05:08:42PM -0700, Luther Johnson wrote:
> I use csh (tcsh) and bash at the command line, but straight Bourne she= ll
> language is preferred and recommended by many for shell programming, I= used
> to use csh for that and got bitten by all the things that I later
> discovered, those in the know had been warning about for years. Also,<= br> > "bash-isms", syntactic sugary things in bash had led me to u= se them as a
> crutch, my scripts got simpler and more to the point when I re-wrote t= hem
> for Bourne shell language only. That was my experience. I think we'= ;ll always
> have some kind of Bourne shell as the script workhorse, at last in
> Linux/Unix start-up and other blood and guts stuff.

When I was running my engineering team I was strict about Bourne syntax
and features only.=C2=A0 I got pushed on like crazy because "bash has = this
$GOODNESS whhhhhhhy can't we use it".=C2=A0 Because we were suppor= ting our
product on pretty much every unix and if it wasn't HP-UX that had an ancient /bin/sh, it was AIX or whoever.

Over and over, I won the "straight bourne shell only" battle.=C2= =A0 So I agree,
if you want /bin/sh to work, Bourne shell for the win.

For a login shell, bash is my shell of choice.=C2=A0 It's bloated but I= 'm
typing this on a 5 year old Lenova X1 Carbon with 16GB of memory and
4 cores and it's fine.=C2=A0 It was fine a 133mhz Pentium.
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dnygeek.net
<= a href=3D"https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home" target=3D"_blank">mindthe= gapdialogs.com/home
--0000000000006809f605f118061c--