From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10443 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 15:54:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 15:54:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4B142518; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 01:54:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com (mail-ot1-f47.google.com [209.85.210.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FC6F423E0 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 01:54:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id f88-20020a9d03e1000000b00684c4041ff1so3305746otf.8 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 07:54:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XQVpGFDWCa3vRYvtr1IPJ6vXSuOcLrrdnPpsiCdwS88=; b=D+IDqFfTXo7jqYb3O5eN+A09kJL9hJJ4fp3DOu+eK8EliNgGS5RCvp0f6qpdzcoOSn 5SRAWb1um5mUXplETE0AEZZL6d4u/BbGO+6UGOJ6P5av4ri907IdYiVhE3ut6vjIlPCE Ev/eEsu+uxxvNrG6zH19aa6xgYX4CKEZo5rVxXO5b2shtaWO/np1NCuvYyzM2NXV5wos AVMeg0cl9Hpgp0PyyQ7+SDNNaF1XIiYyREq6opppLnaXfHsEZWjzVbVXIDrexGO1LPHN 0tcTrHYBCFEooNIVXQk7FRm6YvM4WA6E76fcW1QY6dAThIocHSmQVQb1wb1q5vzNoAND e20A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XQVpGFDWCa3vRYvtr1IPJ6vXSuOcLrrdnPpsiCdwS88=; b=6pZOd3e/bOWJWnvCbeBN9dbP9+4qa+6yBOeDq9K04OG+z7KTD3Ws/IN581rWnGRrIb 79Rawv0U25AWLbVDU08vG3qhPh/OBsU+R9M1UqL6LjWqP0cgdu+sM4BCn02kh59a0E0e 1NzoZWzF16avELhI79H6T6CklGUwA3D7e8RCa9iboCH50OjHCWSTqMVuKDRRJgabCRQs D2e6HGxq9EWtUQguS98h4tuNI5zdpkrKyKZvxga4p/6NMmllKt+Vdvv5uM2wjhOj+ZYy 6+ZgCikyLmySPLnnHckTVib3HgUC/iMTcqz/hSw9yBg16eeTxhwUXsXSTOS4VRc8mHiI /KZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqCtr31aA6xNmk18vlhqjzxevnAUUOLuI5+jL3wUwKY3807114H GiOpVUSc5BRHfOmzion0aIGz3B7tY85w5ttCsO3JZmNA X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXuAAquFUEiIX3T96xmjOr4vwcgy4+408JX/NXWCfQmlUyJMyrIiZF7b5FpubtmI+fCN0ZWPA1QSbCWM6QONplo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:39f1:b0:661:943e:92e2 with SMTP id bt49-20020a05683039f100b00661943e92e2mr780439otb.362.1674229994095; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 07:53:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> <52e4bbd7-c5cd-4142-a609-d73ad8025201@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52e4bbd7-c5cd-4142-a609-d73ad8025201@app.fastmail.com> From: Marc Donner Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:53:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joseph Holsten Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000120b2205f2b40cab" Message-ID-Hash: 4LHZMOLPL556VJIPICUWEZTF3RZOR6C6 X-Message-ID-Hash: 4LHZMOLPL556VJIPICUWEZTF3RZOR6C6 X-MailFrom: marc.donner@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Tautological Eunuch Horticultural Scythians X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000120b2205f2b40cab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Well, it should probably be a separate thread, since the struggle went on for a long time. We were ultimately able to integrate the AIX 3 systems with our network, but it involved computing the inverse FFT of the ODM on our master machine(s) and then disting that information as a script to the other machines. Then we applied the updates to each machine locally. It thus became much harder to verify that each machine was essentially identical to every other. Of course, part of the problem was that with expensive licensed software it was easy to make an economic justification for the machines being configured idiosyncratically. We conceptualized them as development workstations, so we wanted them to be as identical as possible. A while later, after I got very frustrated with IBM's failure to support my distributed systems work, I left and went to Morgan Stanley where I ended up running (and evolving) the Unix environment used by the Fixed Income department. In order to avoid single-vendor lockin we decided that ten or fifteen percent of our machines would be RS-6000s. We wanted, however, to have an absolutely identical environment so that any user could sit down at any machine and have it just work. Brian Redman ended up being the technical lead on that effort. We coined the motto, "If it doesn't work on the IBMs, it doesn't work." In a few cases we had third party products that only ran on Sun machines. Fortunately the X Window System allowed us to run the binary on a Sun compute server while displaying a window on the user's machine (Sun or IBM). Brian streamlined all of that to the point where there were no visible seams. We had to standardize the user profiles, which was a bigger task than it seemed at first. Best, Marc ===== nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:27 PM Joseph Holsten wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 17:17, Marc Donner wrote: > > I won't bore you with all of the details, but it was a struggle. > > > Clearly, you mistake your audience. I would probably read a multi-volume > series of these struggles. > --000000000000120b2205f2b40cab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, it should probably be a = separate thread, since the struggle went on for a long time.=C2=A0 We were = ultimately able to integrate the AIX 3 systems with our network, but it inv= olved computing the inverse FFT of the ODM on our master machine(s) and the= n disting that information as a script to the other machines.=C2=A0 Then we= applied the updates to each machine locally.

It thus became much harder to verify that each machine was essentia= lly identical to every other.=C2=A0 Of course, part of the problem was that= with expensive licensed software it was easy to make an economic justifica= tion for the machines being configured idiosyncratically.=C2=A0 We conceptu= alized them as development workstations, so we wanted them to be as identic= al as possible.

A while later, after I= got very frustrated with IBM's failure to support my distributed syste= ms work, I left and went to Morgan Stanley where I ended up running (and ev= olving) the Unix environment used by the Fixed Income department.=C2=A0 In = order to avoid single-vendor lockin we decided that ten or fifteen percent = of our machines would be RS-6000s.

We= wanted, however, to have an absolutely identical environment so that any u= ser could sit down at any machine and have it just work.=C2=A0 Brian Redman= ended up being the technical lead on that effort.=C2=A0 We coined the mott= o, "If it doesn't work on the IBMs, it doesn't work."=C2= =A0 In a few cases we had third party products that only ran on Sun machine= s.=C2=A0=C2=A0Fortunately the X Window System allowed us to run the binary = on a Sun compute server while displaying a window on the user's machine= (Sun or IBM).=C2=A0 Brian streamlined all of that to the point where there= were no visible seams.

We had to stan= dardize the user profiles, which was a bigger task than it seemed at first.=

Best,

Marc

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:27 PM Joseph Holsten <joseph@josephholsten.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 17:17, Marc Donner w= rote:
I won't bore you with all of the details, but it was a struggle.
<= /div>

Clearly, you mistake your audie= nce. I would probably read a multi-volume series of these struggles.
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