Re: [TUHS] s editor

* Re: [TUHS] s editor
@ 2020-07-04  6:10 Paul Palmer
  2020-07-04  6:16 ` Paul Palmer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 2+ messages in thread
From: Paul Palmer @ 2020-07-04  6:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 19317 bytes --]

Could someone point me to some information about s editor?

Googling didn't help

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM <tuhs-request@minnie.tuhs.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton)
>    2. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>    3. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor)
>    4. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan)
>    5. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>    6. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>    7. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700
> From: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID:
>         <CAP2nic3UNxqi-obHwB5H+Ee+x5MKsd=eBrwhVbX+Ao3AgVPx=
> g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>
> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi host.
> This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's needed to
> make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do
> was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be
> fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment).
>
> I was following
>
> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was
> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get
> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).
>
> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
> because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>
> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>
> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>
> >From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol
> 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting for
> packet
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent 86,
> resent 6, received 1
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
> order 0, remote rejects 0
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 5440
> bytes 19 bps)
>
> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> starting uucico as expected:
>
> login: pi-uucp
> Password:
> Shere
>
> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiting
> for packet.
>
> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi (Taylor
> UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from the
> v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Adam
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400
> From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
> To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
> >
> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
> > host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's
> > needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I
> > wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job
> _is_,
> > but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current
> > environment).
> >
> > I was following
> >
> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
> > more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and
> was
> > using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get
> > UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).
> >
> > I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
> > because I can use them for terminal sessions.
> >
> As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson."
>
> Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH  (VH
> driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the
> simulated interrupts will be a mother).  That said, the VH driver is a not
> exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was
> similar but different.   It's been on my list of things I want to chase
> down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original.
>
> FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome.  There were a ton
> of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to
> make them play better.   Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in the old
> days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement -
> they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the
> DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it enough
> to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably).
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600
> From: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
> To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
> >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>
> >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
> talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
> Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=v7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400
> From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
> To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD2gp_QsNY1WnL1xeBAJbt=m1Af1nJ_BFTX6tRTLy=
> DzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
> > host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working)
> >
>
> What is this "s" editor?  The v7 man pages say nothing about it, and of
> course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful.
>
>
> John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
> We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed.
>         --Northrop Frye (improved)
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400
> From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
> To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID:
>         <CAC20D2PRpAPcfou=
> ze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Grant - The g (greg’s protocol) is correct. IIRC that’s the only line
> protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base.
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
> > >
> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost
> works.
> >
> > Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
> >
> > >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> > >
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> > > for packet
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> > > 86, resent 6, received 1
> >
> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
> > talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
> > Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
> > protocol.
> >
> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
> >
> > I'm ignorantly asking questions.
> >
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum
> 0,
> > > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> > >
> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> > > starting uucico as expected:
> > >
> > > login: pi-uucp
> > > Password:
> > > Shere
> >
> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
> >
> > Shere=v7
> >
> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
> >
> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> > > waiting for packet.
> > >
> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> > > successful.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
> > I've forgotten more than comments above.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Grant. . . .
> > unix || die
> >
> > --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400
> From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
> To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp so
> we didn’t have hack the mailer at time.
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
> > >
> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost
> works.
> >
> > Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
> >
> > >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> > >
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> > > for packet
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> > > 86, resent 6, received 1
> >
> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
> > talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
> > Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
> > protocol.
> >
> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
> >
> > I'm ignorantly asking questions.
> >
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum
> 0,
> > > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> > >
> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> > > starting uucico as expected:
> > >
> > > login: pi-uucp
> > > Password:
> > > Shere
> >
> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
> >
> > Shere=v7
> >
> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
> >
> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> > > waiting for packet.
> > >
> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> > > successful.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
> > I've forgotten more than comments above.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Grant. . . .
> > unix || die
> >
> > --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri,  3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
> From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
> To: tuhs@tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
> Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E@lignose.oclsc.org>
>
> Grant Taylor:
>
>   I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
>   talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
>   Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
>   protocol.
>
> =====
>
> You're mis-remembering.  g was the original protocol,
> intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g.
> modems on POTS).  It does error checking of various
> sorts with retransmission.  I believe it is named g
> after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson.
>
> Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error-
> checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e.
>
> Norman Wilson
> Toronto ON
>
>
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>
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