From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15726 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2020 06:18:21 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jul 2020 06:18:21 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D4C669C6B5; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:18:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB139C5E1; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:16:57 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="MsrGLcsL"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 49C839C5E1; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:16:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com (mail-io1-f53.google.com [209.85.166.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C80E194585 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:16:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id f6so18797900ioj.5 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:16:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=01EbvgP6ZMwhel7VP6diUFeGw928FCoznjoUD5gRSH8=; b=MsrGLcsLCdKHA0xX8G1nWkz+hf4JREXnrlfkz1WyZ6cUSlweWD7Wqa7iRDtaMyoCps 59xRTI62D//Rg56DKTWz599ZZexSGoL5iPUfrO7E0QwTlCDx7FvoWqvF+g1biebHec8u fRowF7mxClsSqjZSufbCSyrL0EWYU0KfCCNjqSU9cFYRKyPzwx/yKVeGlwfDNqls2Z6+ V0u+5v9dZwsG5JRuOOA1EDbSozLGxfPHaHFVXCor2zQPP2LaccRTO/Dn5jrPeGZa/gxf X+i2Q3xvx9xUuKNROp2X8e8xOviiLB7Nwq0GQwp6c/n4Bbg+Av36Oh01PL4FavfVVB00 1pbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=01EbvgP6ZMwhel7VP6diUFeGw928FCoznjoUD5gRSH8=; b=VwBFGdmgoY7f12fnHuTdqS7guquRMX/GguQj0X+J0rUCLaJz2c4ppqQpYLMxmjrJ8Z MHH9eJNFFRAO0Jn7bScUh9MIDxfdyfVmqbY9o0Qes5z43C1i2dtJ/cl7ARI+8pgC6rzK 4awxZJJp54zLGYCrgZfp8BrT6KtKXxCSnc4xwtzl2ke+GUFqTZhiwJeZf2BSg5Qyc/pg JKp690Qj5KsEjbPD1MU7jpkEiyEfPjQ6mpihZufjYCXki/W2tG91yTNPaF1B3+zRq8sp KuvRCNjo4C22LZFuw8h9hsL1qAdHuFaO5LjcYys4ONIT7MplWizG+uKnqCqwbHIIJFFR BBUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533sTnfU0qbumdO+hl/01CFhMELi2vAkqkBDrDYqYTXLP/tSf4bn lfw+IeHafMWjKUIX6NR012ayfYSCKMdX25mtFUCTIg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxcJpMlDNkMhFAO2LixbPxPkTuwdmjrF8IHlDadJ9RzVcglCqv3WOFGtLKAM+YzVa7woub+tX9uZP/piPEaMVo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:d96:: with SMTP id l22mr43759877jaj.120.1593843411788; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:16:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Paul Palmer Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 01:16:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000632beb05a9979655" Subject: Re: [TUHS] s editor X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000632beb05a9979655 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Never mind. I see John Cowan has already asked. I'll crawl back in my hole now On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 1:10 AM Paul Palmer Could someone point me to some information about s editor? > > Googling didn't help > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM >> Send TUHS mailing list submissions to >> tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> tuhs-request@minnie.tuhs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> tuhs-owner@minnie.tuhs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton) >> 2. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) >> 3. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor) >> 4. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan) >> 5. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) >> 6. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) >> 7. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700 >> From: Adam Thornton >> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society >> Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: >> > g@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >> >> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too) >> >> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi hos= t. >> This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's needed = to >> make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to d= o >> was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be >> fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment= ). >> >> I was following >> >> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20In= stallation%20Guide.pdf >> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and w= as >> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to ge= t >> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that). >> >> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode. They're working fine, >> because I can use them for terminal sessions. >> >> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. >> >> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works. >> >> >From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): >> >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP) >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protoco= l >> 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) >> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending >> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) >> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting f= or >> packet >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent 86= , >> resent 6, received 1 >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0, >> order 0, remote rejects 0 >> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 54= 40 >> bytes 19 bps) >> >> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is >> starting uucico as expected: >> >> login: pi-uucp >> Password: >> Shere >> >> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the >> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiti= ng >> for packet. >> >> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi >> (Taylor >> UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from >> the >> v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful. >> >> Any help would be appreciated. >> >> Adam >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/fbc5f57a/atta= chment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400 >> From: Clem Cole >> To: Adam Thornton >> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: >> < >> CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >> >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton wrote= : >> >> > (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too) >> > >> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi >> > host. This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that'= s >> > needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I >> > wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job >> _is_, >> > but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current >> > environment). >> > >> > I was following >> > >> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20In= stallation%20Guide.pdf >> > more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and >> was >> > using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to >> get >> > UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that)= . >> > >> > I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode. They're working fine= , >> > because I can use them for terminal sessions. >> > >> As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson." >> >> Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH (VH >> driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the >> simulated interrupts will be a mother). That said, the VH driver is a n= ot >> exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was >> similar but different. It's been on my list of things I want to chase >> down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original. >> >> FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome. There were a t= on >> of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers t= o >> make them play better. Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in the ol= d >> days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacemen= t >> - >> they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the >> DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it enou= gh >> to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably). >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/093ff539/atta= chment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600 >> From: Grant Taylor >> To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed" >> >> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: >> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. >> > >> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost work= s. >> >> Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? >> >> > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): >> > >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP= ) >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful >> > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) >> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending >> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) >> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting >> > for packet >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent >> > 86, resent 6, received 1 >> >> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to >> talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over >> Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' >> protocol. >> >> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. >> >> I'm ignorantly asking questions. >> >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum >> 0, >> > order 0, remote rejects 0 >> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds >> > 5440 bytes 19 bps) >> > >> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is >> > starting uucico as expected: >> > >> > login: pi-uucp >> > Password: >> > Shere >> >> Shouldn't that be something more like the following? >> >> Shere=3Dv7 >> >> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar with >> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. >> >> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the >> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout >> > waiting for packet. >> > >> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi >> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an >> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was >> > successful. >> > >> > Any help would be appreciated. >> >> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and >> I've forgotten more than comments above. >> >> >> >> -- >> Grant. . . . >> unix || die >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: smime.p7s >> Type: application/pkcs7-signature >> Size: 4013 bytes >> Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/b827f997/atta= chment-0001.bin >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400 >> From: John Cowan >> To: Adam Thornton >> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: >> > DzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >> >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton wrote= : >> >> >> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi >> > host. This plus the "s" editor (already working) >> > >> >> What is this "s" editor? The v7 man pages say nothing about it, and of >> course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful. >> >> >> John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org >> We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed. >> --Northrop Frye (improved) >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/83879cf0/atta= chment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400 >> From: Clem Cole >> To: Grant Taylor >> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: >> > ze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >> >> Grant - The g (greg=E2=80=99s protocol) is correct. IIRC that=E2=80=99s = the only line >> protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base. >> >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS < >> tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> >> wrote: >> >> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: >> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. >> > > >> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost >> works. >> > >> > Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? >> > >> > > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): >> > > >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port >> TCP) >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful >> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) >> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending >> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) >> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiti= ng >> > > for packet >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sen= t >> > > 86, resent 6, received 1 >> > >> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to >> > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over >> > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' >> > protocol. >> > >> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. >> > >> > I'm ignorantly asking questions. >> > >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksu= m >> 0, >> > > order 0, remote rejects 0 >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 second= s >> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps) >> > > >> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end = is >> > > starting uucico as expected: >> > > >> > > login: pi-uucp >> > > Password: >> > > Shere >> > >> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following? >> > >> > Shere=3Dv7 >> > >> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar wi= th >> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. >> > >> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in t= he >> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout >> > > waiting for packet. >> > > >> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi >> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an >> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission w= as >> > > successful. >> > > >> > > Any help would be appreciated. >> > >> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and >> > I've forgotten more than comments above. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Grant. . . . >> > unix || die >> > >> > -- >> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/3340357a/atta= chment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400 >> From: Clem Cole >> To: Grant Taylor >> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: >> < >> CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >> >> Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp = so >> we didn=E2=80=99t have hack the mailer at time. >> >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS < >> tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> >> wrote: >> >> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: >> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. >> > > >> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost >> works. >> > >> > Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? >> > >> > > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): >> > > >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port >> TCP) >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful >> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) >> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending >> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) >> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiti= ng >> > > for packet >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sen= t >> > > 86, resent 6, received 1 >> > >> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to >> > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over >> > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' >> > protocol. >> > >> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. >> > >> > I'm ignorantly asking questions. >> > >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksu= m >> 0, >> > > order 0, remote rejects 0 >> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 second= s >> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps) >> > > >> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end = is >> > > starting uucico as expected: >> > > >> > > login: pi-uucp >> > > Password: >> > > Shere >> > >> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following? >> > >> > Shere=3Dv7 >> > >> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar wi= th >> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. >> > >> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in t= he >> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout >> > > waiting for packet. >> > > >> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi >> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an >> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission w= as >> > > successful. >> > > >> > > Any help would be appreciated. >> > >> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and >> > I've forgotten more than comments above. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Grant. . . . >> > unix || die >> > >> > -- >> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/eeebfeff/atta= chment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT) >> From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) >> To: tuhs@tuhs.org >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested >> Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E@lignose.oclsc.org> >> >> Grant Taylor: >> >> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to >> talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over >> Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' >> protocol. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> You're mis-remembering. g was the original protocol, >> intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g. >> modems on POTS). It does error checking of various >> sorts with retransmission. I believe it is named g >> after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson. >> >> Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error- >> checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e. >> >> Norman Wilson >> Toronto ON >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TUHS mailing list >> TUHS@minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of TUHS Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3 >> *********************************** >> > --000000000000632beb05a9979655 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Never mind. I see=C2=A0John Cowan has already asked.

<= div dir=3D"auto">I&= #39;ll crawl back in my hole now

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 1:10 AM Paul Palmer <paul.allan.palmer@gmail.com wr= ote:
Could someon= e point me to some information about s editor?

<= div dir=3D"auto">Googling didn't help

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM <tuhs-= request@minnie.tuhs.org wrote:
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tuhs-owner@minnie.tuhs.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..."


Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor)
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan)
=C2=A0 =C2=A05. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A06. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A07. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700
From: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAP2nic3UNxqi-obHwB5H+Ee+x5MKsd=3DeBrwhVbX+= Ao3AgVPx=3Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

(if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)

I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi ho= st.
This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that= 9;s needed to
make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be
fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment).<= br>
I was following
https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V= 7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was<= br> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).=

I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.=C2=A0 They're work= ing fine,
because I can use them for terminal sessions.

I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.

I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):

uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
/home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting for<= br> packet
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: se= nt 86,
resent 6, received 1
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0, order 0, remote rejects 0
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 5440<= br> bytes 19 bps)

So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is<= br> starting uucico as expected:

login: pi-uucp
Password:
Shere

uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiting<= br> for packet.

So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly the pi (T= aylor
UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from the=
v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful.

Any help would be appreciated.

Adam
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.= gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmai= l.com> wrote:

> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>
> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry = Pi
> host.=C2=A0 This plus the "s" editor (already working) are r= eally all that's
> needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I=
> wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _= is_,
> but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current=
> environment).
>
> I was following
> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/how= tos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and= was
> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to = get
> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed t= hat).
>
> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.=C2=A0 They're= working fine,
> because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>
As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson.&quo= t;

Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH=C2=A0 (V= H
driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the
simulated interrupts will be a mother).=C2=A0 That said, the VH driver is a= not
exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was
similar but different.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's been on my list of things I wan= t to chase
down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original.

FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome.=C2=A0 There we= re a ton
of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to make them play better.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in= the old
days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement -=
they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it= enough
to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably).
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>= ;
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <01f8f896-99= 21-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowe= d"

On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>
> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost work= s.

Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?

>=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP= )
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting=
> for packet
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packet= s: sent
> 86, resent 6, received 1

I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' pr= otocol to
talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP= over
Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the = 9;g'
protocol.

I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.

I'm ignorantly asking questions.

> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum = 0,
> order 0, remote rejects 0
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds =
> 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>
> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 en= d is
> starting uucico as expected:
>
> login: pi-uucp
> Password:
> Shere

Shouldn't that be something more like the following?

Shere=3Dv7

What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I'm m= uch more familiar with
Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.

> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the=
> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout > waiting for packet.
>
> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly the = pi
> (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was=
> successful.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and I've forgotten more than comments above.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400
From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAD2gp_QsNY1WnL1xeBAJbt=3Dm1Af1nJ_BFTX6tRTL= y=3DDzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmai= l.com> wrote:


> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry = Pi
> host.=C2=A0 This plus the "s" editor (already working)
>

What is this "s" editor?=C2=A0 The v7 man pages say nothing about= it, and of
course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful.


John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 htt= p://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 cowan@cci= l.org
We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Northrop Frye (improved)
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net><= br> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2PRpAPcfou=3Dze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

Grant - The g (greg=E2=80=99s protocol) is correct. IIRC that=E2=80=99s the= only line
protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@= minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost= works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?
>
> >=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (por= t TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)<= br> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out wa= iting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' p= ackets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g= 9; protocol to
> talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later fo= r TCP over
> Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports th= e 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, chec= ksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 sec= onds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the = v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=3Dv7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I= 9;m much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears i= n the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeou= t
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly= the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmissio= n was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years a= nd
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net><= br> Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.= gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp so<= br> we didn=E2=80=99t have hack the mailer at time.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@= minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost= works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?
>
> >=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (por= t TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)<= br> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out wa= iting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' p= ackets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g= 9; protocol to
> talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later fo= r TCP over
> Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports th= e 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, chec= ksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 sec= onds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the = v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=3Dv7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I= 9;m much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears i= n the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeou= t
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly= the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmissio= n was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years a= nd
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Message: 7
Date: Fri,=C2=A0 3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
To: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB591442= 2E@lignose.oclsc.org>

Grant Taylor:

=C2=A0 I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g&= #39; protocol to
=C2=A0 talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later = for TCP over
=C2=A0 Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports = the 'g'
=C2=A0 protocol.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

You're mis-remembering.=C2=A0 g was the original protocol,
intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g.
modems on POTS).=C2=A0 It does error checking of various
sorts with retransmission.=C2=A0 I believe it is named g
after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson.

Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error-
checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON


------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of TUHS Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3
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