From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15084 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2020 06:12:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jul 2020 06:12:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 175B89C6B7; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:12:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2B49C5E1; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:10:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="f/Wq/s6a"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9C5449C5E1; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:10:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-f174.google.com (mail-il1-f174.google.com [209.85.166.174]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 364F294585 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:10:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-f174.google.com with SMTP id a6so12128108ilq.13 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:10:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A1t7QfgsiZqaVL2IeQYvcin9ZOHnAn4CI1kmKrGLVps=; b=f/Wq/s6aU7gV0Cc9rcz/cHwUsT9j/9sLdNuow8E3JqDwACuY9+wywnm9JL7CQ3AuIV mbGC2xYq+ATficDJJGimHwLZ2FFTeNeuF/ybqEDMhNDAVBMvz63dRGemwZhJfof4ZoE7 0T0rlgZx6L0VANc7HvYyJn0kRsLSrvt8ZHOqT9Lg2fjaNIiUiN8JSmTQaH8rwSlC+hLH ofmT8qOtxEH253T7MNGGfVd26dWX+VDjhAOa23ZeB4iJfcmg5s9aEoyWUj5QQIdjutRV G4Mx+lWzy5k38fdY8ADm0Ua++HQNQ4QYCvtNbQJdYkeceoR11RHYtq+e0F1JWH14i6Uv C6Xw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A1t7QfgsiZqaVL2IeQYvcin9ZOHnAn4CI1kmKrGLVps=; b=g71cLStQaybG0Tfhun8l/adAdvSWBvN9H1FYODRiiuw2eNH+k5DUhcwWi6+WJ1a5z+ l8miKPnt+e4rXsMrG9/Jc7v0ewPf5WliTQs4/L5Iaxt59uARqWuYG9X6jDCa6495WxVp Vcr1sJyRgpQfuAVn/R/+bCfNFlajGqQQeRwVGoMnrm5XiD1zpklVxZ/pNm4Sm3QdXPoj niibergWu+nfccB+XTB9GNTwNQgjX3oNfX/41Gn+vHYIixbMZGvKeZMh4Q5IWVWgjuc2 kvydAAG3NC0kK/fmI6Go6/OwzCDP+tvA5uOj/FwEUJ80JoWLylRmqNMyGtm3P560Z7kX mjEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Z4tRr7H32bi0YOJ93R08Ncukp4WlhqB7+tNGf8UveHUcY6IVf RlJW7Hp1DutL1VjpTgvFmsh2pTf6vQC54BZJOllCrw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9H0Q4Lw1osQ3QBt+JBgZT9kmkIb8es6ax8fVZDEFrk4jkKHMoNz4xpHzZTYJpXYApFamsUdt/ZRUy2kO6PnU= X-Received: by 2002:a92:9196:: with SMTP id e22mr20234804ill.147.1593843013922; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:10:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Palmer Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 01:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ac327f05a9977e58" Subject: Re: [TUHS] s editor X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000ac327f05a9977e58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could someone point me to some information about s editor? Googling didn't help On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM Send TUHS mailing list submissions to > tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tuhs-request@minnie.tuhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tuhs-owner@minnie.tuhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton) > 2. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) > 3. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor) > 4. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan) > 5. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) > 6. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole) > 7. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700 > From: Adam Thornton > To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: > g@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too) > > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi host= . > This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's needed t= o > make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do > was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be > fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment)= . > > I was following > > https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Ins= tallation%20Guide.pdf > more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and wa= s > using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get > UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that). > > I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode. They're working fine, > because I can use them for terminal sessions. > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works. > > >From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP) > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol > 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting fo= r > packet > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent 86, > resent 6, received 1 > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0, > order 0, remote rejects 0 > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 544= 0 > bytes 19 bps) > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is > starting uucico as expected: > > login: pi-uucp > Password: > Shere > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waitin= g > for packet. > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi (Tayl= or > UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from t= he > v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Adam > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/fbc5f57a/attac= hment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400 > From: Clem Cole > To: Adam Thornton > Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: > < > CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton wrote: > > > (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too) > > > > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi > > host. This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's > > needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I > > wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job > _is_, > > but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current > > environment). > > > > I was following > > > https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Ins= tallation%20Guide.pdf > > more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and > was > > using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to g= et > > UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that). > > > > I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode. They're working fine, > > because I can use them for terminal sessions. > > > As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson." > > Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH (VH > driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the > simulated interrupts will be a mother). That said, the VH driver is a no= t > exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was > similar but different. It's been on my list of things I want to chase > down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original. > > FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome. There were a to= n > of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to > make them play better. Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in the old > days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement= - > they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the > DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it enoug= h > to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably). > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/093ff539/attac= hment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600 > From: Grant Taylor > To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed" > > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > > > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works= . > > Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? > > > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): > > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP) > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting > > for packet > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent > > 86, resent 6, received 1 > > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' > protocol. > > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. > > I'm ignorantly asking questions. > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0= , > > order 0, remote rejects 0 > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds > > 5440 bytes 19 bps) > > > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is > > starting uucico as expected: > > > > login: pi-uucp > > Password: > > Shere > > Shouldn't that be something more like the following? > > Shere=3Dv7 > > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar with > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. > > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout > > waiting for packet. > > > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was > > successful. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and > I've forgotten more than comments above. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: smime.p7s > Type: application/pkcs7-signature > Size: 4013 bytes > Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/b827f997/attac= hment-0001.bin > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400 > From: John Cowan > To: Adam Thornton > Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: > DzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton wrote: > > > > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi > > host. This plus the "s" editor (already working) > > > > What is this "s" editor? The v7 man pages say nothing about it, and of > course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful. > > > John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org > We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed. > --Northrop Frye (improved) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/83879cf0/attac= hment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400 > From: Clem Cole > To: Grant Taylor > Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: > ze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > Grant - The g (greg=E2=80=99s protocol) is correct. IIRC that=E2=80=99s t= he only line > protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base. > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS > > wrote: > > > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: > > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > > > > > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost > works. > > > > Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? > > > > > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): > > > > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TC= P) > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) > > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending > > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) > > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waitin= g > > > for packet > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent > > > 86, resent 6, received 1 > > > > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to > > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over > > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' > > protocol. > > > > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. > > > > I'm ignorantly asking questions. > > > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum > 0, > > > order 0, remote rejects 0 > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds > > > 5440 bytes 19 bps) > > > > > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end i= s > > > starting uucico as expected: > > > > > > login: pi-uucp > > > Password: > > > Shere > > > > Shouldn't that be something more like the following? > > > > Shere=3Dv7 > > > > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar wit= h > > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. > > > > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in th= e > > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout > > > waiting for packet. > > > > > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi > > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an > > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission wa= s > > > successful. > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and > > I've forgotten more than comments above. > > > > > > > > -- > > Grant. . . . > > unix || die > > > > -- > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/3340357a/attac= hment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400 > From: Clem Cole > To: Grant Taylor > Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: > < > CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp s= o > we didn=E2=80=99t have hack the mailer at time. > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS > > wrote: > > > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: > > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > > > > > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost > works. > > > > Which system are you referring to here? The Pi or V7? > > > > > From the Pi side, I see (with uulog): > > > > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TC= P) > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7) > > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending > > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes) > > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waitin= g > > > for packet > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent > > > 86, resent 6, received 1 > > > > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to > > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over > > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' > > protocol. > > > > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do. > > > > I'm ignorantly asking questions. > > > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum > 0, > > > order 0, remote rejects 0 > > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds > > > 5440 bytes 19 bps) > > > > > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end i= s > > > starting uucico as expected: > > > > > > login: pi-uucp > > > Password: > > > Shere > > > > Shouldn't that be something more like the following? > > > > Shere=3Dv7 > > > > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show? (I'm much more familiar wit= h > > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7. > > > > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in th= e > > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout > > > waiting for packet. > > > > > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this? Clearly the pi > > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an > > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission wa= s > > > successful. > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and > > I've forgotten more than comments above. > > > > > > > > -- > > Grant. . . . > > unix || die > > > > -- > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/eeebfeff/attac= hment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT) > From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) > To: tuhs@tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested > Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E@lignose.oclsc.org> > > Grant Taylor: > > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to > talk to v7. I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over > Ethernet connections. As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g' > protocol. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > You're mis-remembering. g was the original protocol, > intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g. > modems on POTS). It does error checking of various > sorts with retransmission. I believe it is named g > after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson. > > Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error- > checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e. > > Norman Wilson > Toronto ON > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS@minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > ------------------------------ > > End of TUHS Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3 > *********************************** > --000000000000ac327f05a9977e58 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could someone point me to some information about s editor= ?

Googling didn't help

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020= , 9:00 PM <tuhs-request= @minnie.tuhs.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor)
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan)
=C2=A0 =C2=A05. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A06. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
=C2=A0 =C2=A07. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700
From: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAP2nic3UNxqi-obHwB5H+Ee+x5MKsd=3DeBrwhVbX+= Ao3AgVPx=3Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

(if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)

I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi ho= st.
This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that= 9;s needed to
make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be
fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment).<= br>
I was following
https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20= Installation%20Guide.pdf
more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was<= br> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).=

I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.=C2=A0 They're work= ing fine,
because I can use them for terminal sessions.

I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.

I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):

uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
/home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting for<= br> packet
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: se= nt 86,
resent 6, received 1
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0, order 0, remote rejects 0
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 5440<= br> bytes 19 bps)

So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is<= br> starting uucico as expected:

login: pi-uucp
Password:
Shere

uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiting<= br> for packet.

So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly the pi (T= aylor
UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from the=
v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful.

Any help would be appreciated.

Adam
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:

> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>
> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry = Pi
> host.=C2=A0 This plus the "s" editor (already working) are r= eally all that's
> needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I=
> wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _= is_,
> but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current=
> environment).
>
> I was following
> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20= UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and= was
> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to = get
> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed t= hat).
>
> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.=C2=A0 They're= working fine,
> because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>
As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson.&quo= t;

Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH=C2=A0 (V= H
driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the
simulated interrupts will be a mother).=C2=A0 That said, the VH driver is a= not
exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was
similar but different.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's been on my list of things I wan= t to chase
down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original.

FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome.=C2=A0 There we= re a ton
of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to make them play better.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in= the old
days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement -=
they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it= enough
to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably).
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc= 2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowe= d"

On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>
> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost work= s.

Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?

>=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP= )
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting=
> for packet
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packet= s: sent
> 86, resent 6, received 1

I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' pr= otocol to
talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP= over
Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the = 9;g'
protocol.

I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.

I'm ignorantly asking questions.

> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum = 0,
> order 0, remote rejects 0
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds =
> 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>
> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 en= d is
> starting uucico as expected:
>
> login: pi-uucp
> Password:
> Shere

Shouldn't that be something more like the following?

Shere=3Dv7

What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I'm m= uch more familiar with
Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.

> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the=
> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout > waiting for packet.
>
> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly the = pi
> (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was=
> successful.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and I've forgotten more than comments above.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400
From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAD2gp_QsNY1WnL1xeBAJbt=3Dm1Af1nJ_BFTX6tRTL= y=3DDzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:


> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry = Pi
> host.=C2=A0 This plus the "s" editor (already working)
>

What is this "s" editor?=C2=A0 The v7 man pages say nothing about= it, and of
course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful.


John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://vrici.l= ojban.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.org
We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Northrop Frye (improved)
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2PRpAPcfou=3Dze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

Grant - The g (greg=E2=80=99s protocol) is correct. IIRC that=E2=80=99s the= only line
protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs= .org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost= works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?
>
> >=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (por= t TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)<= br> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out wa= iting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' p= ackets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g= 9; protocol to
> talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later fo= r TCP over
> Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports th= e 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, chec= ksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 sec= onds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the = v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=3Dv7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I= 9;m much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears i= n the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeou= t
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly= the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmissio= n was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years a= nd
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"

Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp so<= br> we didn=E2=80=99t have hack the mailer at time.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs= .org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi. > >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost= works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?=C2=A0 The Pi or V7?
>
> >=C2=A0 From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (por= t TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)<= br> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out wa= iting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' p= ackets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g= 9; protocol to
> talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later fo= r TCP over
> Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports th= e 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, chec= ksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 sec= onds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the = v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=3Dv7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?=C2=A0 (I= 9;m much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears i= n the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeou= t
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?=C2=A0 Clearly= the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmissio= n was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years a= nd
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri,=C2=A0 3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
To: t= uhs@tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E@lignose.= oclsc.org>

Grant Taylor:

=C2=A0 I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g&= #39; protocol to
=C2=A0 talk to v7.=C2=A0 I thought the 'g' protocol came out later = for TCP over
=C2=A0 Ethernet connections.=C2=A0 As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports = the 'g'
=C2=A0 protocol.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

You're mis-remembering.=C2=A0 g was the original protocol,
intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g.
modems on POTS).=C2=A0 It does error checking of various
sorts with retransmission.=C2=A0 I believe it is named g
after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson.

Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error-
checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON


------------------------------

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