From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5822 invoked from network); 2 May 2022 02:11:42 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 May 2022 02:11:42 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 48C1C9D450; Mon, 2 May 2022 12:11:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0E99D431; Mon, 2 May 2022 12:09:06 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="TLo2ho58"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 14FB19D431; Mon, 2 May 2022 12:09:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com (mail-wr1-f48.google.com [209.85.221.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57CB99CE23 for ; Mon, 2 May 2022 12:09:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id b19so17838232wrh.11 for ; Sun, 01 May 2022 19:09:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IwwoVEU4vzKD09a2urU2SSwjZEcBWSnMlbV1SMbsq3s=; b=TLo2ho58CzK46TVSgzsAtttHipJ2xHb3IPXNScBJHofwGW9ffSEwDUTBqvA1qczpoz EOV7MhCVQGj6TOB7Lon72ELTiX3DV5CkM8JV6kX1ZrLasm2pIwovvC7+8uC80PIUVqvK fo/UDPP8Qhg6ss64HfzeNns/vDbd6iXVyv+rdshhy5dxcgoNL0IuSZSaBTUk/1Vok7n6 MIdoC4o/bLSYp0xhWS1NuhRj6SddMv+ijq9A6xjXzbuomE83GgAXclq1SoCu+4Uv4Skc pbouyKaSUpThyLgrv580t8FejOkbGr2aTWjnZDW01TzRwhwxQIsY2jsOvjasVI8a1uYN 6JgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IwwoVEU4vzKD09a2urU2SSwjZEcBWSnMlbV1SMbsq3s=; b=KIUe5KveVtMX41eNp3e5e3wyGITrunyfKLaK2bcqhLSKgQquhBsYV3p147VV8epWls QHsHELwDYx+bmfdHuE+r6InxOeqI9gEKyr3mL9zsznwaCqUgfLC+4jJOFxqvUw9nRb/8 Z4ZctJ1Vlt95xz0ilWnwBTEl6l2pMiaJWEA/aeSzYZViOAA1A4mzgSSqHMATmphlVo1Q 65dhE3aeqw1o0QvjlWLp+Xjdu8Gyj7DgophOMa/orfLqaAZcnXtiIJ61smwQh3qXuvJn gpOJF17pMmcZ7dsvI6G43ms4pUs4tQN2+iZcmzXGEAqsRNPJgXJkV+YOStIEMiL5W048 +uQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Z3WRpO076qRIvLdXiHZjmkbNdwZZNtPG40Kme1nlrhyxuCpoG Vb5W/gjXpYALz6dkYJB9qFeMdbP2pvSHMFPjwHU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyC7g2ltNDjetL/X/5K1Z7AqtKvEMzcUG57YSvhVfKYpn3LPE7Mv5iCXEeeEkvENPlQMKxJGXjRCTdVgUSzMkI= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e60a:0:b0:20a:c402:6810 with SMTP id p10-20020adfe60a000000b0020ac4026810mr7857018wrm.45.1651457340564; Sun, 01 May 2022 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57977CE7-DDCC-4861-BBD2-843B9B9F51C2@ronnatalie.com> In-Reply-To: From: Kenneth Goodwin Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 22:08:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: ron minnich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025655405ddfde00b" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000025655405ddfde00b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My understanding of AIX was that IBM licensed the System V source code and then proceeded to "make it their own". I had a days experience with it on a POS cash register fixing a client issue. The shocker - they changed all the error messages to error codes with a look at the manual requirement. Not sure if this is true in its entirety or not. But that's what I recall, thst it was not a from scratch rewrite but more along the lines of other vendor UNIX clones of the time. License the source, change the name and then beat it to death. On Sun, May 1, 2022, 2:08 PM ron minnich wrote: > in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I > understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the > code." > > Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right. > One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if > the full path existed. oops. > > But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to > handle AIX being different from just about everything else. > > > On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Kenneth Goodwin > wrote: > > > > I actually purchased several copies of Coherent when it was first > released and used it as printer servers for a bunch of inexpensive > Centronics based printers. lpd based server to server transfers. Took the > printing burden off the main systems. Someone came out with a network bas= ed > print spooler box (Milan ??) later on which I switched over to after MW > passed into obscurity. > > > > > > On Sun, May 1, 2022, 7:46 AM Ron Natalie wrote: > >> > >> Mark Williams Coherent was one I worked with on the PC many years ago. > >> > >> > On May 1, 2022, at 11:34, Andrew Warkentin > wrote: > >> > > >> > =EF=BB=BFWhat was the first "clone" functional Unix (i.e. an OS not = derived > >> > from genetic Unix code but highly compatible with genetic Unix)? Idr= is > >> > is the earliest such OS of which I am aware (at least AFAIK it's not= a > >> > genetic Unix), but was it actually the first? Similarly, which was t= he > >> > first "outer Unix-like" system (i.e. one with strong Unix influence > >> > but significantly incompatible with functional Unix)? Off the top of > >> > my head the earliest such system I can think of is Thoth (which > >> > predates Idris by almost 2 years), but again I'm not sure if it was > >> > actually the first. > >> > --00000000000025655405ddfde00b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My understanding of AIX was that IBM licensed the System = V source code and then proceeded to "make it their own". I had a = days experience with it on a POS cash register fixing a client issue. The s= hocker - they changed all the error messages to error codes with a look at = the manual requirement.

Not su= re if this is true in its entirety or not.
But that&= #39;s what I recall, thst it was not a from scratch rewrite but more along = the lines of other vendor UNIX clones of the time.=C2=A0
License the source, change the name and then beat it to death.

On= Sun, May 1, 2022, 2:08 PM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the
code."

Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right.
One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if
the full path existed. oops.

But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to
handle AIX being different from just about everything else.


On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Kenneth Goodwin
<kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I actually purchased several copies of Coherent when it was first rele= ased and used it as printer servers for a bunch of inexpensive Centronics b= ased printers. lpd based server to server transfers. Took the printing burd= en off the main systems. Someone came out with a network based print spoole= r box (Milan ??) later on which I switched over to after MW passed into obs= curity.
>
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2022, 7:46 AM Ron Natalie <ron@ronnatalie.com>= ; wrote:
>>
>> Mark Williams Coherent was one I worked with on the PC many years = ago.
>>
>> > On May 1, 2022, at 11:34, Andrew Warkentin <andreww591@g= mail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > =EF=BB=BFWhat was the first "clone" functional Unix= (i.e. an OS not derived
>> > from genetic Unix code but highly compatible with genetic Uni= x)? Idris
>> > is the earliest such OS of which I am aware (at least AFAIK i= t's not a
>> > genetic Unix), but was it actually the first? Similarly, whic= h was the
>> > first "outer Unix-like" system (i.e. one with stron= g Unix influence
>> > but significantly incompatible with functional Unix)? Off the= top of
>> > my head the earliest such system I can think of is Thoth (whi= ch
>> > predates Idris by almost 2 years), but again I'm not sure= if it was
>> > actually the first.
>>
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