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* [TUHS] Historical application software
@ 2022-05-27 11:57 Paul Ruizendaal
  2022-05-27 17:00 ` [TUHS] " Grant Taylor via TUHS
  2022-05-28 22:06 ` [TUHS] Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s? Kenneth Goodwin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Paul Ruizendaal @ 2022-05-27 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

I came across a website that discusses reviving an old binary for Lotus 1-2-3 for SysV Unix (386 COFF), on the way to making it run on Linux:

https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/linux123.html

The audience here may enjoy the read, and maybe it is of use when reviving other old application software for 1980’s and 1990’s Unix.

The key part I think is this:

Quote:

"Yikes - it’s an original unstripped object file from 1-2-3. There are nearly 20,000 symbols including private symbols and debug information.

Why would Lotus ship this? It’s so big it must have required them to phyiscally ship an extra disk to every customer? Could it have been a mistake, accidentally left on the final release image?

I had so many questions, but I’m not old enough to have any experience with SysV, so I asked the greybeards on alt.folklore.computers if they had seen this before and why this might have happened.

The answer was that this is probably deliberate - dlopen() was not widely available on UNIX in the early 90s, so there was no easy way to load native plugins or extensions. To solve this, vendors would ship a bunch of partially linked object files with a script to relink them with your extensions – Clever!"

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-27 11:57 [TUHS] Historical application software Paul Ruizendaal
@ 2022-05-27 17:00 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
  2022-05-27 17:29   ` Warner Losh
  2022-05-28 22:06 ` [TUHS] Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s? Kenneth Goodwin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Grant Taylor via TUHS @ 2022-05-27 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

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On 5/27/22 5:57 AM, Paul Ruizendaal wrote:
> I came across a website that discusses reviving an old binary for Lotus 
> 1-2-3 for SysV Unix (386 COFF), on the way to making it run on Linux:
> 
> https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/linux123.html

Yep.  That is a very interesting article.

Though I do think that some of what Tavis did was borderline 
exceptional.  I don't know many people that would consider writing their 
own object utility to do things.  But this just goes to show what is 
possible if you are willing to do so.

> The audience here may enjoy the read, and maybe it is of use when 
> reviving other old application software for 1980’s and 1990’s Unix.

I've filed it away for future reference for this very reason.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-27 17:00 ` [TUHS] " Grant Taylor via TUHS
@ 2022-05-27 17:29   ` Warner Losh
  2022-05-28 15:30     ` Paul Winalski
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-05-27 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Grant Taylor; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:00 AM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 5/27/22 5:57 AM, Paul Ruizendaal wrote:
> > I came across a website that discusses reviving an old binary for Lotus
> > 1-2-3 for SysV Unix (386 COFF), on the way to making it run on Linux:
> >
> > https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/linux123.html
>
> Yep.  That is a very interesting article.
>
> Though I do think that some of what Tavis did was borderline
> exceptional.  I don't know many people that would consider writing their
> own object utility to do things.  But this just goes to show what is
> possible if you are willing to do so.
>

People working on emulators run into these issues all the time as well.
There was a greater diversity of object formats when Unix was younger
as well, most have been displaced by ELF (PECOFF being the only exception
that's still around outside of Windows).

Also people that try to decompile things back into .o files run into these
issues as well... There's been efforts over the years to extract different
kinds
of drivers from old binary-only kernels, for example, that have met with
differing
degrees of success. Though putting the relocation info back in after the
fact can be quite tricky... The successful ones I know of disassembled and
reassembled to cope with this issue after some post-processing phase to
cope with places where there were tables...


> > The audience here may enjoy the read, and maybe it is of use when
> > reviving other old application software for 1980’s and 1990’s Unix.
>
> I've filed it away for future reference for this very reason.
>

 Yea, it's quite interesting...

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* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-27 17:29   ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-05-28 15:30     ` Paul Winalski
  2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
  2022-06-03  2:02       ` Chris Hanson
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Paul Winalski @ 2022-05-28 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: Grant Taylor, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On 5/27/22, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
> People working on emulators run into these issues all the time as well.
> There was a greater diversity of object formats when Unix was younger
> as well, most have been displaced by ELF (PECOFF being the only exception
> that's still around outside of Windows).

The object formats that I'm aware of on Unix are:

a.out - comes in three flavors:
OMAGIC - executable instructions (text) and static data in the same section
NMAGIC - text separate from data; shared text
ZMAGIC - text separate from data; demand paged

MACH-O - Object and executable format for the MACH microkernel.  This
is still the object format used by the Mac OS X operating system,
which IIRC was built by placing FreeBSD Unix on top of the MACH
microkernel.  It allows more than the three sections (.text, .data,
.bss) in a.out.

COFF - Common Object File Format.  Allows up to 64 object fsections.

ELF - Executable and Linkable Format.  Much more uniform (everything
is a section) than its predecessors, and allows essentially an
arbitrary number of sections.  In addition to its use on Unix, this is
the object file and executable format used by Linux and OpenVMS (on
Itanium and x86).

Are there others?

PECOFF, Portable Executable and Common Object File Format, is the
object file and executable format used by Microsoft Windows.  It is a
derivative of COFF, but, in typical Microsoft embrace-and-extend
fashion, there are significant differences.  When Windows NT was
ported to the DEC Alpha processor, I had to add PECOFF support to
DEC's GEM compiler back end.  I started by adding conditional code to
the existing COFF support, but I found that PECOFF differed enough
from vanilla COFF that it was easier and more maintainable to fork off
a separate module for it.

-Paul W.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-27 11:57 [TUHS] Historical application software Paul Ruizendaal
  2022-05-27 17:00 ` [TUHS] " Grant Taylor via TUHS
@ 2022-05-28 22:06 ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-28 22:09   ` [TUHS] " Kenneth Goodwin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-28 22:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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I have a party in Hightstown NJ
Looking to donate them.

Will follow up with specs.

They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ

I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 22:06 ` [TUHS] Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s? Kenneth Goodwin
@ 2022-05-28 22:09   ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-28 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Details

1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker

Useful as display pieces

Presumed to all be functional.

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
> Looking to donate them.
>
> Will follow up with specs.
>
> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>
> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 22:09   ` [TUHS] " Kenneth Goodwin
@ 2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
  2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
                         ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Ed Cashin @ 2022-05-28 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kenneth Goodwin; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Ed L. Cashin

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If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
subreddit.  Just let me know.

Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
probably love to use this equipment.


On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Details
>
> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>
> Useful as display pieces
>
> Presumed to all be functional.
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>> Looking to donate them.
>>
>> Will follow up with specs.
>>
>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>
>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>
>

-- 
  Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
@ 2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
  2022-05-29  2:11         ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-29  2:08       ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-29  2:10       ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-05-28 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Cashin; +Cc: Ed L. Cashin, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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What about the rescue mailing list?

On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:

> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
> subreddit.  Just let me know.
>
> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
> probably love to use this equipment.
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Details
>>
>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>
>> Useful as display pieces
>>
>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>
>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>
>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>
>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>
-- 
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

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* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-28 15:30     ` Paul Winalski
@ 2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
  2022-05-29  9:43         ` Ralph Corderoy
  2022-06-03  2:00         ` Chris Hanson
  2022-06-03  2:02       ` Chris Hanson
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-05-29  0:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Winalski; +Cc: Grant Taylor, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 9:30 AM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 5/27/22, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >
> > People working on emulators run into these issues all the time as well.
> > There was a greater diversity of object formats when Unix was younger
> > as well, most have been displaced by ELF (PECOFF being the only exception
> > that's still around outside of Windows).
>
> The object formats that I'm aware of on Unix are:
>
> a.out - comes in three flavors:
> OMAGIC - executable instructions (text) and static data in the same section
> NMAGIC - text separate from data; shared text
> ZMAGIC - text separate from data; demand paged


bsd 2.11 has 6 different magic numbers. The three extra are one flavor of
overlays that does the itself, and two flavor that do it automatically
(I've not plumbed the depths of the code to know what that means) with
separate I&D and one without.


> MACH-O - Object and executable format for the MACH microkernel.  This
> is still the object format used by the Mac OS X operating system,
> which IIRC was built by placing FreeBSD Unix on top of the MACH
> microkernel.  It allows more than the three sections (.text, .data,
> .bss) in a.out.
>
> COFF - Common Object File Format.  Allows up to 64 object fsections.
>

HP-UX had a weird form of COFF in the early days. IBM AIX had its own thing
that wasn't quite COFF, nor was it quite a.out. Apollo also had a variation
on COFF that wasn't quite standard. I wrote a symbol mangler for all of
these in the early 90s and each one was its own special snowflake.


> ELF - Executable and Linkable Format.  Much more uniform (everything
> is a section) than its predecessors, and allows essentially an
> arbitrary number of sections.  In addition to its use on Unix, this is
> the object file and executable format used by Linux and OpenVMS (on
> Itanium and x86).
>
> Are there others?
>
> PECOFF, Portable Executable and Common Object File Format, is the
> object file and executable format used by Microsoft Windows.  It is a
> derivative of COFF, but, in typical Microsoft embrace-and-extend
> fashion, there are significant differences.  When Windows NT was
> ported to the DEC Alpha processor, I had to add PECOFF support to
> DEC's GEM compiler back end.  I started by adding conditional code to
> the existing COFF support, but I found that PECOFF differed enough
> from vanilla COFF that it was easier and more maintainable to fork off
> a separate module for it.
>

pecoff is also used for UEFI binaries... Though the subset that's used tends
to be smaller than what windows itself uses.

Warner

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
  2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
@ 2022-05-29  2:08       ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-29  2:10       ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-29  2:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Cashin; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Ed L. Cashin

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Photos of equipment at

https://cnj.craigslist.org/zip/d/hightstown-scrap-you-decide-antique/7489516104.html

Please don't go direct to poster.
It might cause confusion and mayhem

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:

> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
> subreddit.  Just let me know.
>
> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
> probably love to use this equipment.
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Details
>>
>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>
>> Useful as display pieces
>>
>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>
>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>
>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>
>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
  2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
  2022-05-29  2:08       ` Kenneth Goodwin
@ 2022-05-29  2:10       ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-29  2:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Cashin; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Ed L. Cashin

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Feel free to inquire and then we can all discuss
Etc.

John in Washington state is currently only confirmed parry but might not
want everything or be willing to share.

Be a shame to toss something vintage like this

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:

> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
> subreddit.  Just let me know.
>
> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
> probably love to use this equipment.
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Details
>>
>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>
>> Useful as display pieces
>>
>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>
>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>
>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>
>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
@ 2022-05-29  2:11         ` Kenneth Goodwin
  2022-05-29  2:18           ` Kenneth Goodwin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-29  2:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: Ed L. Cashin, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Everyone feel free to inquire around.
If it all goes to one private party. Then at least they will know who to
passing along to.

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 7:45 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> What about the rescue mailing list?
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:
>
>> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
>> subreddit.  Just let me know.
>>
>> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
>> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
>> probably love to use this equipment.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Details
>>>
>>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>>
>>> Useful as display pieces
>>>
>>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>>
>>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>>
>>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>>
>>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>>
> --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
  2022-05-29  2:11         ` Kenneth Goodwin
@ 2022-05-29  2:18           ` Kenneth Goodwin
       [not found]             ` <99E8871E-035C-4A58-8091-189EDE4689BA@common-sense.com>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-29  2:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: Ed L. Cashin, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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One thing

Sort of looks like the tube checker might be missing a whole lot of the
rest of it.
Like an entire cabinet of stuff

See photos

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 10:11 PM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Everyone feel free to inquire around.
> If it all goes to one private party. Then at least they will know who to
> passing along to.
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 7:45 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
>> What about the rescue mailing list?
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:
>>
>>> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the Heinbach
>>> subreddit.  Just let me know.
>>>
>>> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
>>> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
>>> probably love to use this equipment.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Details
>>>>
>>>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>>>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>>>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>>>
>>>> Useful as display pieces
>>>>
>>>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>>>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>>>
>>>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>>>
>>>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>>
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-05-29  9:43         ` Ralph Corderoy
  2022-06-03  2:00         ` Chris Hanson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Ralph Corderoy @ 2022-05-29  9:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Hi,

Warner wrote:
> HP-UX had a weird form of COFF in the early days. IBM AIX had its own
> thing that wasn't quite COFF, nor was it quite a.out. Apollo also had
> a variation on COFF that wasn't quite standard.

For folks interested in this kind of thing when not all the world was an
ELF, back in 2000, Usenet's comp.compilers' moderator, John R. Levine,
wrote ‘Linkers and Loaders’, https://amzn.to/3LX2eey.
(Disclosure: I reviewed and commented on some chapters.)

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s?
       [not found]               ` <CAMQbRb2uPTaqCrZCnVQuBtHhnFZWPpyZ_fHxs-4h8WGoOCrGJQ@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2022-05-29 13:05                 ` Kenneth Goodwin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Kenneth Goodwin @ 2022-05-29 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Sambrook; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3136 bytes --]

The party also has a vintage AUTOMOBILE tester
If anyone knows of a car collector with a passion for such things
interested in a display piece
Or if you still have the first car you ever bought sitting in the garage

Link to posting attached.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/zip/d/hightstown-for-scrap-vintage-eico-888/7489529776.html

I am in direct contact with the party offering these items.

They are all coming out of basement storage

On Sun, May 29, 2022, 8:53 AM Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
wrote:

> No worries.
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2022, 12:04 AM John Sambrook <john@common-sense.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kenneth -
>>
>> Thank you for the pics.
>>
>> The tube tester appears to be just the meter from a whole tester.
>> Usually, a tube tester is about the size of a small suitcase and has a
>> number of different sockets on its front panel for testing different types
>> of tubes.
>>
>> One of the meters seems worthwhile, but at this time, I am going to
>> decline and hope that at least some of the gear can be salvaged.
>>
>> Thank you for the consideration.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 28, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Kenneth Goodwin <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> One thing
>>
>> Sort of looks like the tube checker might be missing a whole lot of the
>> rest of it.
>> Like an entire cabinet of stuff
>>
>> See photos
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 10:11 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Everyone feel free to inquire around.
>>> If it all goes to one private party. Then at least they will know who to
>>> passing along to.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 7:45 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about the rescue mailing list?
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 7:31 PM Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you don't get a response here, I wouldn't mind asking on the
>>>>> Heinbach subreddit.  Just let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heinbach is a musician who creates live and recorded music using lab
>>>>> equipment.  He has a large following of inspired creators who would
>>>>> probably love to use this equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>>>>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Details
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Knight Allied Radio volt meter 446-06235
>>>>>> 2) Precision Apparatus series 85 volt meter
>>>>>> 3) Weston Model 676 Tube checker
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Useful as display pieces
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presumed to all be functional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 28, 2022, 6:06 PM Kenneth Goodwin <
>>>>>> kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a party in Hightstown NJ
>>>>>>> Looking to donate them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will follow up with specs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They already contacted the radio museum in Wall NJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I told them to try VCF since they should be a separate organization.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>   Ed Cashin <ecashin@noserose.net>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>>>>
>>>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
  2022-05-29  9:43         ` Ralph Corderoy
@ 2022-06-03  2:00         ` Chris Hanson
  2022-06-03  2:09           ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Chris Hanson @ 2022-06-03  2:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: Grant Taylor, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On May 28, 2022, at 5:57 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> 
> HP-UX had a weird form of COFF in the early days. IBM AIX had its own thing that wasn't quite COFF, nor was it quite a.out. Apollo also had a variation on COFF that wasn't quite standard. I wrote a symbol mangler for all of these in the early 90s and each one was its own special snowflake.

HP initially used its own object file format for 32-bit PA-RISC, whether running HP-UX or MPE. I believe it's still the format the ROM expects for anything bootable, at least it is for my MPE-capable A400.

IBM's COFF for AIX on POWER and PowerPC was XCOFF, which was also used as the initial object file format (though not executable format) for the Power Macintosh. Apple's Preferred Executable Format was essentially a mechanical translation away from IBM's XCOFF; the initial toolchains produced .o files and then a "final" binary in XCOFF format, and then ran a MakePEF tool on that to produce the PEF binary for an executable or shared library. I believe Be, due in part to their heritage and toolchains, also used PEF for BeOS on PowerPC.

And then there's the "b.out" format used by i960…

  -- Chris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-05-28 15:30     ` Paul Winalski
  2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-06-03  2:02       ` Chris Hanson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Chris Hanson @ 2022-06-03  2:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Winalski; +Cc: Grant Taylor, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On May 28, 2022, at 8:30 AM, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> the Mac OS X operating system,
> which IIRC was built by placing FreeBSD Unix on top of the MACH
> microkernel

Please don't spread this meme. Like NEXTSTEP before it, there's *way more* to how Mac OS X was created than is implied by "placing FreeBSD Unix on top of the MACH microkernel." In particular, xnu is a lot closer to OSF/1 than a lot of people may realize…

  -- Chris


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Historical application software
  2022-06-03  2:00         ` Chris Hanson
@ 2022-06-03  2:09           ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-06-03  2:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Hanson; +Cc: Grant Taylor, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1401 bytes --]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 8:00 PM Chris Hanson <cmhanson@eschatologist.net>
wrote:

> On May 28, 2022, at 5:57 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> >
> > HP-UX had a weird form of COFF in the early days. IBM AIX had its own
> thing that wasn't quite COFF, nor was it quite a.out. Apollo also had a
> variation on COFF that wasn't quite standard. I wrote a symbol mangler for
> all of these in the early 90s and each one was its own special snowflake.
>
> HP initially used its own object file format for 32-bit PA-RISC, whether
> running HP-UX or MPE. I believe it's still the format the ROM expects for
> anything bootable, at least it is for my MPE-capable A400.
>
> IBM's COFF for AIX on POWER and PowerPC was XCOFF, which was also used as
> the initial object file format (though not executable format) for the Power
> Macintosh. Apple's Preferred Executable Format was essentially a mechanical
> translation away from IBM's XCOFF; the initial toolchains produced .o files
> and then a "final" binary in XCOFF format, and then ran a MakePEF tool on
> that to produce the PEF binary for an executable or shared library. I
> believe Be, due in part to their heritage and toolchains, also used PEF for
> BeOS on PowerPC.
>
> And then there's the "b.out" format used by i960…
>

There were a number of b.out formats used by PC C compilers...

Warner

  -- Chris
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-06-03  2:10 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-05-27 11:57 [TUHS] Historical application software Paul Ruizendaal
2022-05-27 17:00 ` [TUHS] " Grant Taylor via TUHS
2022-05-27 17:29   ` Warner Losh
2022-05-28 15:30     ` Paul Winalski
2022-05-29  0:57       ` Warner Losh
2022-05-29  9:43         ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-06-03  2:00         ` Chris Hanson
2022-06-03  2:09           ` Warner Losh
2022-06-03  2:02       ` Chris Hanson
2022-05-28 22:06 ` [TUHS] Anyone have an interest in really old analog multimeters and a vacuum tube tested circa 1960s or 1950s? Kenneth Goodwin
2022-05-28 22:09   ` [TUHS] " Kenneth Goodwin
2022-05-28 23:31     ` Ed Cashin
2022-05-28 23:45       ` Clem Cole
2022-05-29  2:11         ` Kenneth Goodwin
2022-05-29  2:18           ` Kenneth Goodwin
     [not found]             ` <99E8871E-035C-4A58-8091-189EDE4689BA@common-sense.com>
     [not found]               ` <CAMQbRb2uPTaqCrZCnVQuBtHhnFZWPpyZ_fHxs-4h8WGoOCrGJQ@mail.gmail.com>
2022-05-29 13:05                 ` Kenneth Goodwin
2022-05-29  2:08       ` Kenneth Goodwin
2022-05-29  2:10       ` Kenneth Goodwin

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