From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23780 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 13:11:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 13:11:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A25424FA; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 23:11:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f44.google.com (mail-io1-f44.google.com [209.85.166.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FD4F424F9 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 23:11:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f44.google.com with SMTP id q130so2414499iod.4 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 05:11:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ey/bZSL9Xlzl4TsCPs413euZlx51vneNvbmnAQkVf8s=; b=ivGxBClvP+kR7GVLSfKtTbkCX7ENUSB752HcbjRai2gd0SqnXdwScWmmwZag6mMcep 8a9p5FSLiQGNsMcpkpoLV8YysCHXXwwfgVQRgFFThRwlaOmXCC482qe6X6GpnhXZCWjf 9ddM5TJDTwWJu9LWwyLopMG36bqgV3HrKcotm1BNawT10zdtYjFXBYwNGp/I53/I17HU k8XWlW5xi3h9AXAzP7klnSzAah4/0xeX5hqj/YZICSBKauKr3TCdo1/HSkC86Yn014Eg RSyIr6NCBhS1GVpz69nM16TaT0e7DAZ+/Z8/vWoyal1hD8Yms1cDOXzHlCLQXbLvt2Lo +J+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ey/bZSL9Xlzl4TsCPs413euZlx51vneNvbmnAQkVf8s=; b=GXCU1oZ6uhO1q96HmbcDPV1QXh7NmPU/Vo2aNxx2qG1bBPA5ZY1X4eZaVkynR33WF3 23/k0KUaGFfYYsaYTfH6d1M/P2RtvPnHo9LCfefuH8uHii2yQulySsLlVrzM7GuvFRqU tz4lWm/2mc92/GLkkFv4Go3c5ftyJ524OGmQ1uBhVWT6wTlrZmWlKlvC8ZquCR9TpEmi m4Yg+eKUgZDw+b1LdJFAWCPLkZA6DtdFf9VYKxmfK0icnI+8PfTCSfS7jO/xTRFZTPMj rEe0NfX5S44EVzJirVvpWb6DRPAH6EsvyLKTmUeyVO31wcXIgGoiJiojVHMATo9NU5H3 G12A== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpJg9ClOn3+/Qt+M7RpJvU7TOyRNIW60tX/AM5L7bDtwCRdWJ4F 7ik3riLhPIeoFDroIrkpWHDlD+Ikpi3flT18ddsHAmTe+TX14w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXu22qAcTxDDWIQNtqAOqWfZqP4sCUL7D8tNYpMxMcUJWLA327T4lv7Q3+NBQGYUXrbNr5garyeCriqVB+jPSC0= X-Received: by 2002:a02:9714:0:b0:3a6:f34:bb8c with SMTP id x20-20020a029714000000b003a60f34bb8cmr663176jai.293.1674220201113; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 05:10:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> <2f00f9a6-c57d-8490-4066-931ec6e191cd@gmail.com> <20230118164242.GG2964@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Liam Proven Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:09:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: CHGQLSUQIH2F4WHLTFO7PS7Y5H3XYCWY X-Message-ID-Hash: CHGQLSUQIH2F4WHLTFO7PS7Y5H3XYCWY X-MailFrom: lproven@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 at 19:25, Doug McIntyre wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 04:02:18PM +0100, Liam Proven wrote: > > ChromeBooks outsold Mac in the USA in 2017, and worldwide by 2020. > > (Sales have fallen off a cliff since the pandemic, but that's because > > so many people have one and are happy with it, I think.) > > I think you need to s/people/schools/ on that statement. OK, so many _owners_ have one. I do not know much about the education market. My only child is just 3 so is not in one yet. I went to 9 different schools in 3 countries on 2 continents so I am not a good example myself. And I currently live in a country where I'm not fluent in the local language (I am trying but it's my 6th and I'm old) so I don't know much about its educational system, even though I have taught in it. But my vague impression is that the high penetration of Chromebooks in education is something of a North American or maybe USA peculiarity, and I don't think this can be generalised worldwide. My _impression_ is that European schools do not routinely provide students with computers, and mostly that students are not allowed to use computers in class, except possibly in computer classes. Wealthier families may of course buy them for their children but this is not a given or a universal or even all that common. Americans have a disproportionately high standard of living and are often unaware of this. For instance, in other retrocomputing groups, I find that many collectors and hobbyisyts from the USA are almost totally unaware of _the_ single most widespread, most successful, most widely-cloned family of 8-bit home computers: the Sinclair Research ZX Spectrum. In Western Europe, Apple/Commodore/Atari were too expensive for most private owners in the early 1980s, and while Apple made the first sub-$1000 home computer, that was still the price of a family car. Sinclair made the first sub-=C2=A3100 one which ordinary families could buy for their children. In the late 1980s, as the West moved to 16-bit machines, instead Eastern Europe adopted hundreds of clones of the ZX Spectrum, which before the fall of Communism were affordable to build at hobbyist scale. (There were many others, including PDP-11 home computers and things, but the Spectrum dominated by far.) I never saw a single Apple II in private ownership in the 20th century. Not one, not even among wealthy friends or acquaintances. > Education really ramped > in that time frame to get every student a chromebook. I think that is a local observation and is false for the world in general. I don't _know_ this but let me put it this way: in the last decade in the computer industry, living in 3 different cities in 2 countries, and new citizenship of a third, including _making_ several Chromebooks with Cloudready or Flex and giving them away, I have seen *one* (1) in private ownership. ONE person I know personally owns one of the things. They still cost as much as a cheap used motorcycle over here, and times are hard at present. People are more likely to be limping along on old Win XP computers. They are selling well but they are very much not one-per-student or one-per-family in ROTW, no. > I'd really like to see chromebook sales broken apart into consumer and ed= ucation segments. Also, regionally. I think you would be shocked by the difference between North America, Europe, the rest of the Anglosphere, and Asia. --=20 Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-= 053