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* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
@ 2020-09-20  5:29 Rudi Blom
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Rudi Blom @ 2020-09-20  5:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

You're a bit harsh on the developers but I think in most cases it was
the marketing/finance  part of companies which decided on such mundane
matters as licensing.

My 2-1/2 cents.

Cheers,
uncle rubl

>Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:42:39 -0700
>From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
>To: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
>Cc: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@math.utah.edu>, tuhs
>        <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
>Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
>Message-ID: <32401.1600544559@hop.toad.com>

... snip ...

>License managers now count as DRM, under the Digital Millennium
>Copyright Act (though no such laws had been passed when the license
>managers were first created).  So: is it worth breaking the law in many
>countries, to maintain a historical curiosity?

>Personally, I would throw DRM-encrusted software, and the hardware that
>is dependent on it, into the dustbin of history.  Its creators had fair.
>warning that they were making their products unusable after they stopped
>caring to maintain them.  They didn't care about their place in history,
>nor about their users.  They did it anyway, for short-term profit and to
>harass those people foolish enough to be their customers.  Their memes
>should not be passed to future generations.  As Sir Walter Scott
>suggested in another context, they "doubly dying, shall go down, to the.
>vile dust, from whence [they] sprung, unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung".

        John

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  4:33 ` Jon Forrest
@ 2020-09-19 21:56   ` David Arnold
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: David Arnold @ 2020-09-19 21:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jon Forrest; +Cc: TUHS

I worked at a Digital-sponsored lab in Australia from the early 90’s. DEC offered us a great deal on DEC 3000-era workstations, replacing all our Ultrix DECstations in (I think) 1994.

At that point, very little of the freely available software would build cleanly for 64 bit platforms. Even the stuff with Cray support often didn’t work with OSF/1’s 32 bit int/64 bit long model. 

And pthreads was a mess, with all the Unix-like systems having implementations of different drafts that were incompatible. 

After a while Digital started redistributing a “freeware” collection of suitably patched versions to bootstrap everyone’s workflows. 




d


> On 19 Sep 2020, at 14:34, Jon Forrest <nobozo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/18/2020 8:26 PM, Paul Riley wrote:
>> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of Unix which will run on this?
> 
> Absolutely! The CS Dept. at UC Berkeley got some of the first Alphas
> released by DEC back in the 90s (I don't remember the exact dates).
> We ran OSF/1 (a.k.a. Digital Unix, a.k.a other names). In fact, what
> became PostgreSQL was developed on Alphas running that Unix.
> 
> Jon
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19 17:45   ` Clem Cole
@ 2020-09-19 19:42     ` John Gilmore
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: John Gilmore @ 2020-09-19 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: tuhs

Nelson H. F. Beebe <beebe@math.utah.edu> wrote:
> We ran DEC OSF/1 until the power supplies on our several Alpha systems
> died, but it had an annual license fee, and the O/S shutdown when the
> license expired.

Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> The issue is license managers as Nelson says, but Internet search is your
> friend *i.e.* different unlimited time styles license PAKs for Tru64 have
> been reported to have been seen in the wild, however YMMV.

License managers now count as DRM, under the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act (though no such laws had been passed when the license
managers were first created).  So: is it worth breaking the law in many
countries, to maintain a historical curiosity?

Personally, I would throw DRM-encrusted software, and the hardware that
is dependent on it, into the dustbin of history.  Its creators had fair
warning that they were making their products unusable after they stopped
caring to maintain them.  They didn't care about their place in history,
nor about their users.  They did it anyway, for short-term profit and to
harass those people foolish enough to be their customers.  Their memes
should not be passed to future generations.  As Sir Walter Scott
suggested in another context, they "doubly dying, shall go down, to the
vile dust, from whence [they] sprung, unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung".

	John
	

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  4:26 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
@ 2020-09-19 17:45   ` Clem Cole
  2020-09-19 19:42     ` John Gilmore
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2020-09-19 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Nelson H. F. Beebe; +Cc: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2023 bytes --]

Tru64 will give you the best experience of the time, allow you to use the
GEM compilers, TruClusters, and all of hte interesting layered products.
The issue is license managers as Nelson says, but Internet search is your
friend *i.e.* different unlimited time styles license PAKs for Tru64 have
been reported to have been seen in the wild, however YMMV.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:27 AM Nelson H. F. Beebe <beebe@math.utah.edu>
wrote:

> >> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of
> Unix
> >> which will run on this?
>
> There are several Debian Alpha ISO images available:
>
>         http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/main/installer-alpha
>         https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/5.0.10/alpha/iso-cd
>         https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2020-08-19/
>         https://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/Platforms/Alpha
>         https://www.debian.org/ports/alpha/
>         https://www.debian.org/releases/woody/alpha
>
> And Gentoo Linux:
>
>         https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Alpha/FAQ
>
> There is also NetBSD:
>
>         https://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-9.0/alpha
>
> And OpenBSD:
>
>         http://www.openbsd.org/alpha.html
>
> And FreeBSD:
>
>         https://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.0R/hardware-alpha.html
>
> We ran DEC OSF/1 until the power supplies on our several Alpha systems
> died, but it had an annual license fee, and the O/S shutdown when the
> license expired.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254
>     -
> - University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148
>     -
> - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail:
> beebe@math.utah.edu  -
> - 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org
> beebe@computer.org -
> - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL:
> http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-19  4:27 ` Adam Thornton
@ 2020-09-19  4:33 ` Jon Forrest
  2020-09-19 21:56   ` David Arnold
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Jon Forrest @ 2020-09-19  4:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs



On 9/18/2020 8:26 PM, Paul Riley wrote:
> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of 
> Unix which will run on this?

Absolutely! The CS Dept. at UC Berkeley got some of the first Alphas
released by DEC back in the 90s (I don't remember the exact dates).
We ran OSF/1 (a.k.a. Digital Unix, a.k.a other names). In fact, what
became PostgreSQL was developed on Alphas running that Unix.

Jon


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
  2020-09-19  4:19 ` Rico Pajarola
  2020-09-19  4:26 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
@ 2020-09-19  4:27 ` Adam Thornton
  2020-09-19  4:33 ` Jon Forrest
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2020-09-19  4:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Riley; +Cc: tuhs



> On Sep 18, 2020, at 8:26 PM, Paul Riley <paul@rileyriot.com> wrote:
> 
> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of Unix which will run on this?

Plenty: Digital Unix, NetBSD, or Linux all come to mind.

But I mean, those are kinda boring because they’re Unix which you can run on anything (I mean, sorry, TUHS, but…it’s not like we didn’t win the ubiquity wars).  If you have an Alpha, run OpenVMS!  VSI’s hobbyist license program is supplying licenses now.

Adam


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
  2020-09-19  4:19 ` Rico Pajarola
@ 2020-09-19  4:26 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
  2020-09-19 17:45   ` Clem Cole
  2020-09-19  4:27 ` Adam Thornton
  2020-09-19  4:33 ` Jon Forrest
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Nelson H. F. Beebe @ 2020-09-19  4:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Riley, tuhs

>> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of Unix
>> which will run on this?

There are several Debian Alpha ISO images available:

	http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/main/installer-alpha
	https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/5.0.10/alpha/iso-cd
	https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2020-08-19/
        https://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/Platforms/Alpha
        https://www.debian.org/ports/alpha/
        https://www.debian.org/releases/woody/alpha

And Gentoo Linux:

	https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Alpha/FAQ

There is also NetBSD:

	https://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-9.0/alpha

And OpenBSD:

	http://www.openbsd.org/alpha.html

And FreeBSD:

	https://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.0R/hardware-alpha.html

We ran DEC OSF/1 until the power supplies on our several Alpha systems
died, but it had an annual license fee, and the O/S shutdown when the
license expired.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe@acm.org  beebe@computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
  2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
@ 2020-09-19  4:19 ` Rico Pajarola
  2020-09-19  4:26 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Rico Pajarola @ 2020-09-19  4:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Riley; +Cc: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 389 bytes --]

Digital Unix / Tru64 >= 4.x (I'd have to check, might be 4.0A), NetBSD,
OpenBSD, Linux (e.g. Debian)

Awesome machine, just a warning (in case you are buying it blindly), it's
huge.


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:28 PM Paul Riley <paul@rileyriot.com> wrote:

> I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of Unix
> which will run on this?
>
> Paul
>
> *Paul Riley*
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000
@ 2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
  2020-09-19  4:19 ` Rico Pajarola
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Paul Riley @ 2020-09-19  3:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 119 bytes --]

I have an opportunity to buy a DEC AlphaServer. Is there a version of Unix
which will run on this?

Paul

*Paul Riley*

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-20  5:31 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-20  5:29 [TUHS] Unix on DEC AlphaServer 4000 Rudi Blom
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-09-19  3:26 Paul Riley
2020-09-19  4:19 ` Rico Pajarola
2020-09-19  4:26 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
2020-09-19 17:45   ` Clem Cole
2020-09-19 19:42     ` John Gilmore
2020-09-19  4:27 ` Adam Thornton
2020-09-19  4:33 ` Jon Forrest
2020-09-19 21:56   ` David Arnold

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