From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 60298e06 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 16:55:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E1BE09C0FD; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 02:55:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1979C0F7; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 02:54:15 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="ASYxI40X"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6CBD79C0F7; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 02:54:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com (mail-qt1-f170.google.com [209.85.160.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B65469B842 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 02:54:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id d18so22240115qtj.10 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:54:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nZ1zxEKREmvDD/BVQbE8PKzAf06aPNRozrASCH18ghA=; b=ASYxI40XuOpNdYvVTSskQcuoAxYDTOYPbDkLiCRz+TZQsauHAVXKldPRA2l0Ga/2+W 8SwvocGzE9QVwWEfopbXW0BAkc+J0bv7Pi4DyDHB/PustINUKWfjE6GzGtHB/q/swSWO rr4Iqn9a9PUzGSTlwmlG60bKVVu/Vng1adnz4TaMmjO2KDjygmFcaclaJNEbgoYvCnHF Farm9jcq4pPIjGoouQiC2lFg7eVsqGZmaO5wd+zGtBRAGYS9xjjqaenS+v9Bir79I7Cn DzjejomX3Waijxx+ff6SpJqoGg/b7p9BjVLttqSCbWdfAjV9JJzi8WAhv+SAJGFM5lp5 J2RA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nZ1zxEKREmvDD/BVQbE8PKzAf06aPNRozrASCH18ghA=; b=mCG9AVTdAe294kuuVw8g72dcy1iUqkUnT43Q87DsNj0Lnfig22P0Y6bnIPkcePjZrc y0fjOTrOeX8l3ER6Iz/8GIItq/28axb8VTysxD/UdAlSBAjMIwE+VdTns1oVGgeI3Hhh inJoHgNHJISseR05PCKRIAkija6AIpZjf4c4cXOxMiHe0ygReFwRXyvQqowKfbo2XeOa eG1CTKuQ+DheEV6qai88odrK+NHXBY28xvQeGLzjtkG/E/5iZVhN+U5qOjR0L63rb4iO u0F8pXMahijXlg/cpPJKO3lJCLzPXOC8Snuy8PsFhfpwN7OvmTX7itJIxMvev54IgRqW yFaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXEI6yKrU+u3MPlK+L80dc9CRjsCV/FL01SlBdSuIzxvHYb/E8g 8QBpMzDxdoBtnXyI7hvYCZlde1ywR30ALLAAafuXy3yS X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzZ1+y/35UcGHyKy9gP9ky4Lzp2r4+ldtXjRjTsuS/6l6Z9MehLhUdwAnRfL7qYMhBkrgjSUAlc9oLCAKGug7g= X-Received: by 2002:aed:3e53:: with SMTP id m19mr8193783qtf.32.1579280047767; Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:54:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:53:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Arrigo Triulzi Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003f94da059c58ca62" Subject: Re: [TUHS] On the origins of Linux - "an academic question" X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Historic Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000003f94da059c58ca62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 9:42 AM Arrigo Triulzi wrote: > [I originally asked the following on Twitter which was probably not the > smartest idea] > > I was recently wondering about the origins of Linux, i.e. Linux Torvalds > doing his MSc and deciding to write Linux (the kernel) for the i386 becau= se > Minix did not support the i386 properly. While this is perfectly > understandable I was trying to understand why, as he was in academia, he > did not decide to write a =E2=80=9Cfree X=E2=80=9D for a different X. The= example I picked > was Plan 9, simply because I always liked it but X could be any number of > other operating systems which he would have been exposed to in academia. > This all started in my mind because I was thinking about my friends who > were CompSci university students with me at the time and they were into a= ll > sorts of esoteric stuff like Miranda-based operating systems, building a > complete interface builder for X11 on SunOS including sparkly mouse > pointers, etc. (I guess you could define it as =E2=80=9Cthe usual frivolo= us MSc > projects=E2=80=9D) and comparing their choices with Linus=E2=80=99. > > The answers I got varied from =E2=80=9Cthe world needed a free Unix and B= SD was > embroiled in the AT&T lawsuit at the time=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CPlan 9 als= o had a > restrictive license=E2=80=9D (to the latter my response was that =E2=80= =9Cso did Unix and > that=E2=80=99s why Linus built Linux!=E2=80=9D) but I don=E2=80=99t feel = any of the answers > addressed my underlying question as to what was wrong in the exposure to > other operating systems which made Unix the choice? > The AT&T lawsuit (April 1992) post-dated Linus starting on his work (eg 0.12 released January 1992). He said in an interview once he was unaware that net/2 was out and could be leveraged to get a working system when he started. It did give a big boost to Linux at a critical time due to the huge amount of FUD that it created over BSD's future. Warner --0000000000003f94da059c58ca62 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 9:42 AM Arrig= o Triulzi <arrigo@alchemistow= l.org> wrote:
[I originally asked the following on Twitter which was probably not th= e smartest idea]

I was recently wondering about the origins of Linux, i.e. Linux Torvalds do= ing his MSc and deciding to write Linux (the kernel) for the i386 because M= inix did not support the i386 properly. While this is perfectly understanda= ble I was trying to understand why, as he was in academia, he did not decid= e to write a =E2=80=9Cfree X=E2=80=9D for a different X. The example I pick= ed was Plan 9, simply because I always liked it but X could be any number o= f other operating systems which he would have been exposed to in academia. = This all started in my mind because I was thinking about my friends who wer= e CompSci university students with me at the time and they were into all so= rts of esoteric stuff like Miranda-based operating systems, building a comp= lete interface builder for X11 on SunOS including sparkly mouse pointers, e= tc. (I guess you could define it as =E2=80=9Cthe usual frivolous MSc projec= ts=E2=80=9D) and comparing their choices with Linus=E2=80=99.

The answers I got varied from =E2=80=9Cthe world needed a free Unix and BSD= was embroiled in the AT&T lawsuit at the time=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CPla= n 9 also had a restrictive license=E2=80=9D (to the latter my response was = that =E2=80=9Cso did Unix and that=E2=80=99s why Linus built Linux!=E2=80= =9D) but I don=E2=80=99t feel any of the answers addressed my underlying qu= estion as to what was wrong in the exposure to other operating systems whic= h made Unix the choice?

The AT&T la= wsuit (April 1992) post-dated Linus starting on his work (eg 0.12 released = January 1992). He said in an interview once he was unaware that net/2 was o= ut and could be leveraged to get a working system when he started. It did g= ive a big boost to Linux at a critical time due to the huge amount of FUD t= hat it created over BSD's future.

Warner
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